Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by esuyengh

Yup I do have a signal strength meter in Vista MCE. As mentioned, even for signals giving me a green light versus yellow or red strength, my sound gradually gets behind. Does that occur for yours, or do you just get hiccups?

Hiccups I can live with, but mine eventually gets so out of sync it seems like I am watching an old dubbed movie where the words do not match the mouth movements. To me, it seems like the fact that the sound is smooth while the video falls behind indicates more of a processing/decoding problem versus a reception problem. This could point to many things like IRQ problems (I think I overcame that), driver problems (since I am using Vista) or even software decoder problems (NVIDIA's PureVideo). Because I was moving, I haven't had the time to test those three possibilities more, but now that I am done, I will. But I am not sure if I will come up with any results easily as those are subtle issues.

However, I am not dismissing the signal strength issue; I am willing to test out another antenna too because I do not think my Terk is designed specifically for HDTV. Any suggestions on a good antenna that might help me out? I'm using the Terk TV05. Think the Zenith Silver Sensor ZHDTV1 will help me?

Esuyengh,

I have two Zenith Silver Sensor HDTV1 antenna’s that came with my HDTV Wonder cards (2x). The Zenith Silver Sensor is a good non-powered antenna but it is directional so if you are receiving signals from multiple dissimilar directions (local broadcasters compass orientation) you may have to adjust the direction of the antenna with channel changes.

To eliminate this, I connected both antenna’s to a signal amplifier via a splitter (essentially creating an amplified antenna array) and oriented them in the best two directions.

This has basically eliminated stutter and signal loss as well as the need to realign antenna orientation with respect to channel change.

The Zenith Silver Sensor goes for about ~$12 and up in the USA and a Radio-shack amp will probably cost about ~$39. There are amplified versions of the Zenith Silver Sensor though.

However, if you are using Vista (what build 5600, 5728,…or higher?) many issues you come across may be directly attributed to the OSes unfinished state.

Since time shifting is an integral part of both MCE 2K5 and its Vista MCE successor it is unlikely that the average user could disable it easily and its effects should one do so may be unpredictable.

Changing decoders in Vista MCE can be rather difficult. It has been said that the “Microsoft Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility” that worked so well in MCE 2K5 doesn’t work in Vista MCE. It may be necessary to disable UAP / UAC before attempting to change the decoder in Vista. It also may be necessary to use a different utility to change the decoder like this:

Vista Decoder Utility and UAP/UAC

However, do keep in mind that currently avilable decoders weren’t necessarily designed with Vista MCE and WMP11 in mind thus their effects may be unpredictable and adverse.

For what its worth, I have never seen an audio sync issue with OTA HDTV or DTV. I don’t think this would typically be caused by signal strength issues.

[esuyengh]

@BillT

Thanks for the suggestion, but I doubt it is my hard drives as I am running 2 WD Raptors (10K RPM) and a WD SE16. I will see if I can figure out how to switch off timeshifting anyways just for kicks though.

@jonaslasky

I agree that signal strength is somewhat relevant to my issues as FOX is almost stutter free. The audio sync issue just makes me think it is more than just signal strength and instead the signal strength problem is just aggravating whatever is underlying my problem; I will try other decoders as you suggest, since I was simply using PureVideo having gotten used to it in the past.

@octavean

Thanks for the input on the Silver Sensor; I am having trouble finding it locally in Boston but can just order off Radioshack's website or Amazon. But that has to wait until next week to test.

I actually used that Vista Decoder Utility to ensure that I am using PureVideo, but as suggested by Jonaslasky, I will use that same utility later tonight or when I have time to test out other decoders.

And yeah, maybe in the end all my problems are Vista related; I am currently using RC1 build 5600, but I am trying to get a hold of 5728 as I have access to Technet. I am using Vista primarily because I do not feel like paying for MCE 2k5 when it is about to be outdated and because I got sick of tooling with MythTV, but I want the slick Linux/OSX like interface that Vista has now. When I get a chance next week (this week going on a trip out of the US), I will reformat and setup a XP/Vista/Linux tri-boot and test it out in other OS's if I can build up the initiative.

[MarkA]

Hi,

I recently bought the newly re-released TV Wonder 650 at Best Buy. On the back of the board, there are 2 locations that appear to have been reworked. There are also 2 big globs of silicone covering the work.

The card freezes up my machine at random times. I've changed slots, changed PCI Latency Timer to 64, set my memory to SPD. I had the 550 before this card and this never happened. I've also had 2 All In Wonder Cards and this never happened. I do have a Creative X-Fi Extreme music card installed also. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, how did you fix it? I mentioned the rework at the top so that I could see if the board still has problems. I've never seen this kind of shabby work on any board I've ever bought. Thanks in advance for the help.

Mark

[esuyengh]

I have those big globs on the back of mine; I am guessing that for whatever reason, ATi soldered on wires to connect something instead of running traces and threw the globs of silicon on to keep those wires from hanging and getting ripped off by accident. I agree it is a bit ghetto, but my card seems to work fine with proper signal; I think BillT mentioned that all the cards, new and old have this.

As you see in my comments above, I am thinking that many of my underlying problems are aggravated by bad signal. How is your signal strength?

Oddly enough, I picked up another channel (NBC) clearly and free of stutter last night in addition to FOX. But ABC, which is in the frequency range between the two has uber crippling stutter and audio sync issues; I did find out that ABC is possibly at a slightly different angle than FOX and NBC in terms of their transmitter placement, so that could explain it.

So I do not think I can blame the PureVideo decoder or drivers entirely. It is a bit confusing overall, but I guess my audio sync issue occurs when I hit a signal with less strength and the computer chugs to sort out all the crud. I do have a powerful computer, but my cpu usage monitor shoots up everytime I change channels for a few seconds before dropping down to below 30% on strong channels. But on stuttering channels it hovers above 50% for varying amounts of time.

[Octavean]

esuyengh,…

Sometimes it is beneficial to test with another application. If I had a problem in MCE 2K5 with respect to HDTV I would fire up WatchHDTV. For example, I was able to determine that an inoperable channel in MCE 2K5 was due to a frequency discrepancy. MCE had the frequency assignment for the local CBS affiliate wrong (automatically assigned) but WatchHDTV had it right (manually assigned). Therefore I had to manually assign the frequency for CBS channel 1021 in MCE (it was 33 or something and it should have been 56 or something like that). Vista beta 2 had this issue too but build 5600 and 5728 didn't.

That’s just an example of how a third-party application can help you point the finger in a particular direction.

If WatchHDTV doesn’t work in Vista RC1 build 5600 (or doesn’t work with the Theater 650) then perhaps Catalyst Media Center will. One would think that CMC is ATI’s application of choice for versions of Vista that don’t have Vista MCE and for hardware that doesn’t meet Vista MCE requirements such as the TV Wonder 200,….

The good thing about WatchHDTV is that it doesn’t need to be installed, just configured, and thus doesn’t alter your system,…

[netboy]

can i use the regular MMC with vista and tv wonder 650?
i really like the regular MMC, it' simple and easy to use!

[AIW_VID_FAN]

Hi everyone
I picked up my third 650 at BestBuy this week also,
And........
I still get NO ATSC Channels !!!.
to recap quickly, my antenna is a UHF HD attic mounted which gets me
about 20+ channels with the hdtv wonder and many on a toshiba set top box.
The rework is still there and ugly, I am running XP pro, AIW 9700 agp, mmc 915 which by the way could not initalize the video once the 650 was installed.
I have uninstalled MMC915 verified the signal strength with an amplifier.
I also just picked up a Sigmacom Sigma HDTV5 (5th gen vsb demodulator USB2 external box) and it gets about 10 digital channels, is portable and works !
I will return the 650 today and maybe try another.
Catalyst media center is obviously powercimema 4+ with ATIs name pasted all over it.
another huge mistake ATI.
Where is the MMC support ?,
I actually called, wrote and begged ATI for MMC support for the 550 last year.
I appreciate the 550 and MMC now are compatable but
do I have to wait another year or will mmc ever support the 650 ?

BILL ?

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by AIW_VID_FAN

Catalsyst media center is obviously powercimema 4+ with ATIs name pasted all over it.

Indeed, IMO it is extremely obvious that “Catalyst Media Center is in fact a hybridized version of Cyberlink PowerCinema 4” .

Painfully obvious may be a better phrase but I am still interested in any official or non-official ATI responses to the question as to the true nature of “Catalyst Media Center”.

BTW, AIW_VID_FAN, did you take a look at the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-950 hybrid NTSC / ATSC USB tuner or Vbox Cats eye 164e dual configurable and concurrent NTSC / ATSC PCIe x1 hybrid tuner?

IMO, it really is worth taking a look at what’s out there or what will soon be available.

[spacded]

hows the picture quality on analogue of the 650 pro compared to the 550pro ?

Is it worth upgrading?

[ArsenalSam]

i have a re-worked 650...
GBPVR doesn't work after i configure it for a 650, it asks me to configure it

WatchHDTV crashes upon execution

CMC is flaky

got to a point in CMC, where it picked up 18 channels, but i couldn't access them upon changing the channel...

i started another thread about this, but no replies...what the hell...a person has a problem and people just look and stare...is there any other 3rd party apps that work?

[AIW_VID_FAN]

The 650 is in a xp machine with an AIW 9700 (uses a T200 AV chip).
Somehow CMC detects 2 cable "inputs", two analog and the ATSC input.
which gets 0 channels.
At the moment (using the same cable source) the 650 looks much worse than
the T200 AIW.
Its time to return this 650 and check out the Happauge or Vbox tuners.

BTW WatchHDTV also crashes on this system.

[Octavean]

http://www.ati.com/products/theater650pro/features.html

Theater 650 Pro Software Support:

* Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition
* Microsoft® Windows® Vista
* ATI Catalyst Media Center ™
* Snapstream BeyondTV
* Cyberlink Powercinema
* Intervideo Home Theater

Since Vista is incomplete and Catalyst Media Center has every indication of being a modified version of Cyberlink Powercinema 4 the avilable choices may look more like:

* Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition
* Snapstream BeyondTV
* Cyberlink Powercinema
* Intervideo Home Theater

Snapstream BeyondTV is an excellent piece of software so if you don’t have Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 the next best option IMO would be BTV.

Vista RC1 (build 5600 / 5728) and the soon to be released RC2 (build 5744) can also be a pleasure to use (if you don’t have any significant problems with it).

WatchHDTV wasn’t built with the Theater 650 Pro in mind so its not too surprising that it doesn’t work, was worth a shot though,..

WatchHDTV is also a HDTV / DTV only app.

[ArsenalSam]

like i said before, you buy a product, you should not have to go through merry hell just to get it to work...

as of now, i was able to pick up 21 channels in CMC, but i could not access about 6 of the channels and those are probably part of what i really want...of those 21, 6 of them are religious...i am about to give up once again on this card and go with something else

i have not tried MCE 2005 yet...

[Octavean]

MCE 2K5 has outstanding PVR prowess but many would question the wisdom of buying MCE now so close to Vista’s expected quasi January 2007 release date.

Why not just try a demo of BeyondTV 4,…?

For the record, I have a tendency to dislike bundled software but that’s largely due to bundled software being truncated or otherwise useless shareware,…….IMO,….

[ArsenalSam]

i'll try beyond tv next....that will be my final attempt, before returning the card...
it's frustrating as hell, ati's cmc picked up 21 channels, which is great, but i couldn't get to about 6 of them..just a black window...all i want is the local channels

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by ArsenalSam

i'll try beyond tv next....that will be my final attempt, before returning the card...
it's frustrating as hell, ati's cmc picked up 21 channels, which is great, but i couldn't get to about 6 of them..just a black window...all i want is the local channels

First you need to determine what channels you should realistically be seeing with respect to your given location. Go to:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Just because 21 channels show up in a scan doesn’t necessarily mean you can actually pull said channels in OTA. This is true regardless of what OTA card you use.