Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by kheim

I would get a copy of Windows MCE if I knew it would solve my HD playback problems. Watching analog is fine as is recording analog. I used a couple of mpeg information reporting tools but both reported that I have all the codecs that I need.

Honestly, if your TV Wonder 650 issues span across numerous applications I would start to consider the possibility that it’s the hardware that is at fault or some combination therein. If you can try the card in another system,… and with a different antenna,…

Since you mentioned Media Center Edition 2005 let me just point out that MCE 2K5 can be had from some e-tailers now for about ~$109.99 US and some actually now come with a FREE Upgrade Coupon to an acquiescent upgrade version of Vista. In other words you can buy MCE 2K5 now and upgrade to Vista Home Premium (with Vista MCE) later for FREE (plus S&H).

I already have three MCE 2K5 licenses and I think I’m going to jump on this deal,….

BTW, it’s interesting that you referred to “Catalyst Media Center” as "CMC/Cyberlink". If you navigate to the install directory of Catalyst Media Center which by default should be the following:

C:\Program Files\ATI\Catalyst Media Center\

You’ll see that the CatalystMC.exe file says ”ATI MX Main Program Cyberlink Corp.” below it.

You might have to have “show file extensions” set to on to see it but I found this to be somewhat amusing,..

[kheim]

Octavean
I couldn't agree with you more that CMC is a modifed Cyberlink app. If ATI wants to say they own it, thats fine with me, but then they should support it like it is theirs also, then. If you take the ownership, then take work that goes with it. And it is going need a lot of phone support when it gets in to main steam of users. ATI taking ownership of this buggy app will be something they will wish they wouldnt have ever done. Really CMC is crap but it has a couple of features I like. One click recording on the fly is handy and the analog picture seems the best I have seen. Thats it though and I seem fixated to make it work just because it should.

Thanks for the advice on MCE.

I did have this setup in a P4 2.6 w/1gb ram. All the same problems. I think I'm missing something with the high def signal being different from one station to the next or the encoded HD overall. My antenna seems to be doing the job and its amplified. It does work in GB-PVR. HD is great in the MS wmv what ever. And it plays back using about 15-20 % cpu. I didn't like the lack of features in GB-PVR. Also the analog picture is lacking. Its far more stable then CMC.

This has been a project of mine since the recall issue. I got my hands on the first 650 card in early Sept. I beleive it was to go on the shelves at BB on Monday and someone put them out on Sunday afternoon. On Monday they where gone off the shelves already.

I had been lurking here all that time but I couldn't get an email sent to me to get activated to post.

I have gone through 3 TV 650 cards. Best Buy is sick of me. So I do have lots of hands on with this 650 card. But I am lacking in all this video compression compatabilty knowlage. My spelling sucks too. I am more then willing to share any of my hands on trials I've had with this TV card.

If anyone gets a chance to do some HD recording while using CMC in the "Good", "Better", and "Best" default modes, Please let me know how portable the mpeg file is.

Maybe I'm not seeing the problem, but it seems like CMC is putting out a defective mpeg file when recording HD OTA and it won't even play back in their own application in a stable manner. This mpeg can be converted to Divx and it plays fine but I just can't seem to use it in its native mpeg format right from CMC.

I'm sorry for rambling on but it gets frustrating sometimes

[fanbanlo]

hum.. why aren't there any T650 in Canada?

[Octavean]

Buy.com has the TV Wonder 650 for $109.99 with FREE shipping:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...4&loc=101&sp=1

There is also a paid-TV like video segment featuring the TV Wonder 650 that auto plays when you hit the page.

Kheim, it has been brought to my attention that Catalyst Media Center actually runs at least three Cyberlink services after install. As for support of Catalyst Media Center there are numerous “Knowledge Base” articles outlining known limitations and bugs. If I were to guess I would have to say that ATI would be forced to pass on reported bugs to Cyberlink and then wait for Cyberlink to address them.

Fanbanlo, shop.ati.com seems to be selling and shipping TV Wonder 650 cards in Canada but they are out of stock. The fact that they are willing to sell the TV Wonder 650 in Canada is a good sign IMO,….since this wasn’t always the case with the HDTV Wonder,….or so I have heard,…

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by kheim

Thanks Jonaslaki and Octavean
I don't know how to tell what decoder I am using. I assume this means a codec for playback. (I'm sorry this video stuff is new to me.) I am not sure if I can get CMC/Cyberlink to use a different codec for playback. I don't know what to look for when hunting down a codec. I need to learn how to do all of this. I called ATI, but this turned out to be a waste of time. No one could tell me if they have product to hardware decode their mpeg file or what to download for a software decoder. I thought by using 100% of ATI hardware and software products, this would be easy or at least I could get support. (TV 650 & X1300). I was wrong. I tried BeyondTV but it had strange artifacts when using the 650 card. I would get a copy of Windows MCE if I knew it would solve my HD playback problems. Watching analog is fine as is recording analog. I used a couple of mpeg information reporting tools but both reported that I have all the codecs that I need.

What I did notice, is that there is something very strange about the HD mpeg file that the 650 hardware encodes through CMC. Maybe someone out there has noticed this too or can tell me my observation is wrong. This HD mpeg file won't play in MMP10 or BeyoundTV with out artifacts. Sometimes of the mpeg files won't play in MMP10 at all. I don't recall ever having problems playing any normal mpeg with MMP10 in the past. Maybe I'm a fool but shouldn't CMC playback anything that it records when all the hardware and software are new and of the same brand? Great forum btw.

Clearly you have some major problems. Perhaps the 650 driver didn't install properly (as reported by somebody else here earlier). BeyondTV has usually worked quite well with the Theater series.... and works flawlessly with their own video decoder. Presummably you wouldn't have had to do anything special to playback HDTV files with BTV. So I'm leaning more towards some fundamental problem somewhere. Maybe a complete uninstall of ALL your ATI drivers and a re-install would fix your problem. Remember to use ATI's special uninstall software. Otherwise it won't work.

Have you looked into ATI's Avivo? It's their answer to nVidia's PureVideo and is supposed to be compatible with their 1000 series graphics chips (on which your card is based). They brag to no end about it here:

http://ati.amd.com/technology/avivo/features.html

Jonas

[kheim]

I'll try those ideas. Thanks

I did like BeyondTV and GB-PVR. GB-PVR worked with no problems at all. HD recordings where perfect. Its to bad that it seems like it dosen't support the comb filters.

Maybe, this bears repeating.
CMC works for analog, great. The analog recordings are great. They play back at a quality of VHS or better. The best I've seen. Also HDTV viewing and recording in CMC is great also.

The problem seems to be that CMC dosen't include the proper codecs to play back the HD mpeg that it just recorded.

I was hoping to find someone that is using CMC so we could compare notes.

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by kheim

I'll try those ideas. Thanks

I did like BeyondTV and GB-PVR. GB-PVR worked with no problems at all. HD recordings where perfect. Its to bad that it seems like it dosen't support the comb filters.

Maybe, this bears repeating.
CMC works for analog, great. The analog recordings are great. They play back at a quality of VHS or better. The best I've seen. Also HDTV viewing and recording in CMC is great also.

The problem seems to be that CMC dosen't include the proper codecs to play back the HD mpeg that it just recorded.

I was hoping to find someone that is using CMC so we could compare notes.

So what you're saying is, the high CPU usage ONLY happens with CMC playing a CMC recording? BTV only has problems with HD recorded by CMC?... well duh... that's not surprising to me at all. I misunderstood you before. As everyone here knows, CMC is crap from the beginning and it's still crap now.
Near 100% CPU usage is not "playing great". When your system is properly configured, you should be able to have two or three other applications open while watching HDTV (as I often do). I even transcode to DVD while watching an HD recording sometimes. Transcoding is a lot more CPU intensive than watching an HD recording.


Jonas

[kheim]

jonaslasky

No, there is some misunderstanding again.

I said viewing HDTV was great. (Meaning live TV viewing). When viewing HDTV I am using only 8-9% CPU.

To All

Maybe I should just discuss one thing at a time.
The main problem is that the mpeg that is produced by CMC, from recording a HDTV signal, will not play back in CMC in a stable or consistent manner. Nor will it play back in Windows MP with out some artifacts.

The recording process appears ok because I can convert it to Divx or an avi and the playback is then fine.

The mpeg of an HDTV recorded signal from CMC has some problems.

[vddobrev]

Originally Posted by denyart

Okay, my system is an AMD XP based NForce 2 ultra (Abit NF7-S version 2) system. I have an ATI HDTV Wonder (used for digital only), a VBOX DTA 150 and the pair of 650s. I set my BIOS to S3 standby, and I added the registry key to enable S3 standby and resume. I have used it before in this configuration with other tuners (NVTV, HDTV Wonder) and the tuners worked fine after resuming from standby. The 650s seem to work somewhat after resume, but I cannot use both of them afer a resume. One will show Live TV just fine, but I can't get one to record and use the other one. Sometimes I can't even get Live TV to work with a 650 after a resume. I am using the newest 650 driver and all other drivers are the newest available. I have had a Hauppauge 500 installed on this system and then removed, but that is all taht I can think of. My decoder is the PureVideo decoder 1.02-223 and the video card and driver are NVidia 7600GS AGP with 91.47 MCE driver. I am not sure what else you would need to know to look into this, but I may end up looking into reinstalling from a previous image if I seem to be the only person having this problem. Is there any special way to install the ATI drivers? I know with the HDTV Wonder it was best to install the driver first and then put in the card. With the 650s I was installing the driver after installing the card. I then installed the C patch and then the control panel. The only thing I have done with the control panel was to set the audio to 255 (is there any way to get the default audio a little higher?). Thanks Bill!

I am also experiencing the same problems when coming out of Stand by. I have a somewhat similar sytem:
Intel DP875PBZ
P4 3.4GHz HT
GeForce 7800 GT - 91.47
2 ATI 650 - latest drivers

I would appreciate any help with this.

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by kheim

No, there is some missunderstanding.
Lets just discuss one thing at a time.
The main problem is that the mpeg that is produced by CMC, from recording a HDTV signal will not play back in CMC in stable manner. Nor will it play back in Windows MP with out some artifacts. That simple. The recording process went ok because I can convert it to Divx or an avi and the playback is great. The mpeg is not playable in its native state.

What artifacts do you see in WMP with these CMC/Cyberlink HDTV recordings? Are these artifacts in WMP identical to what is seen in CMC/Cyberlink for the given HDTV recording?

The reason I ask is because I don’t really know how CMC/Cyberlink handles some file types or rather more to the point High-Definition file types. CMC/Cyberlink may just hand off such files to WMP to make it seem as if it is actually playing in CMC/Cyberlink and if that’s the case then WMP may be the source of the problem,…

An indication of this might be if the artifacts in both CMC/Cyberlink and WMP are identical.


***edit***

Originally Posted by denyart

The only thing I have done with the control panel was to set the audio to 255 (is there any way to get the default audio a little higher?). Thanks Bill!

denyart, the older Theater 550 Pro has a known “low audio” bug that, frankly, looks as though it will never be fixed at this late stage in the game.

From owning Theater 550 Pro and TV Wonder 650 products, I can say first hand that the 650 analog audio is loader then the 550 but not dramatically so. If you have a problem with the maximum obtainable audio level on the TV Wonder 650 or notice a significant differential between the 650 and other cards (even after using the AVIVO TV Configuration utility) I think it unlikely that you will find satisfaction in this matter,…….ever,….

[kheim]

octavean
The artifacts a really different. Your exactly right in this symptom would be helpful.

In CMC playback of a HD recording (mpeg), I will get missed frames. Probably because of the 100% cpu usage. The picture is excellent though. If I convert this file to a divx using CMC to convert, it will play back great with low CPU usage. I consider this problem the most important for now.

In WMP playback of the same file, I will get horizontal hazy lines only in moving objects. Also CPU usage is very high with WMP. The divx conversion plays fine here too. (Interestly I get the exact same hazy lines when this same mpeg file is played back in BTV.) (May be just a codec issue.) I consider this problem not real important for right now.

[vddobrev]

Bill T,

When my system is coming out of stand by, only one of the two ATI 650 is available. If I restart, then both are available again. Is there a known compatibility with 2 ATI 650 and an nVidia video card? Any incompatibility with nVidia 91.47 drivers?

Also, can you try the following scenario in a system with 2 ATI 650:
Open MCE, go to My TV, Guide, navigate to any analog program and without clicking OK to start watching it, hit the record button on the remote to start recording it. The program starts recording. Now go to a digital OTA program and click OK to start watching it. In my system this results in an error - Tuner not available.

System:

Intel DP875PBZ
P4 3.4GHz HT
2GB RAM
GeForce 7800GS
2 x 160 GB HDD
2 x ATI 650
Turtle Beach Montego DDL

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by vddobrev

Bill T,

When my system is coming out of stand by, only one of the two ATI 650 is available. If I restart, then both are available again. Is there a known compatibility with 2 ATI 650 and an nVidia video card? Any incompatibility with nVidia 91.47 drivers?

That’s a good question, while waiting for a response you might want to check “ATI Customer care” by serching for TV Wonder 650 or maybe even Catalyst Media Center,… I know that there is at least one reference to 2x TV Wonder 650 cards,…

Unfortunately we may not be able to directly post the link for you,…

Originally Posted by vddobrev

Also, can you try the following scenario in a system with 2 ATI 650:
Open MCE, go to My TV, Guide, navigate to any analog program and without clicking OK to start watching it, hit the record button on the remote to start recording it. The program starts recording. Now go to a digital OTA program and click OK to start watching it. In my system this results in an error - Tuner not available.

System:

Intel DP875PBZ
P4 3.4GHz HT
2GB RAM
GeForce 7800GS
2 x 160 GB HDD
2 x ATI 650
Turtle Beach Montego DDL

Here it sounds like the 2x TV Wonder 650 configuration in MCE might have an assignment of:

TV Wonder 650 #1 primary analog + primary digital

TV Wonder 650 #2 secondary analog + secondary digital

In such case, 2x analog should be functional since this involves two different cards. 2x digital should also be function since this involves two independent cards as well. However, analog + digital may not work since the default is analog on card #1 + digital on card #1 which exceeds the limitations (non-concurrent) of the card.

To test this without the use of a utility in MCE:

Start an analog TV recording on any analog channel. Then switch to another analog channel and start another recording. Go to the guide and right click the first recording and chose “stop recording” without viewing the channel. Now switch to a digital channel,…

If this works you should get no error messages and will be able to view the digital channel.

If not you may need a utility to tell you how the tuners are configured or you may need to go into the registry,…

Just remember that you cannot use two tuners on the same card at the same time,… this is a known limitation of the card,…

[Octavean]

Kheim,….

If haven’t already you can try downloading the “Microsoft Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility”:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

Validation is required or you can try another similar utility (I personally don’t know of any alternatives but others might).

Once you have the utility installed run it and then post what decoder is setup as default.

Also, run one of these recorded HDTV files in WMP. Right click any blank space on the bar at the top and then go to File > properties. Then post what it says under Video codec and Audio codec,..

I forget how to check and change such things in BeyondTV,…I have a BTV 3 license but I haven’t run it in a long time since I use MCE 2K5,…

[vddobrev]

First things first, there is a new driver - xxx.199!
Octavean, thanks for the quick reply. I checked ATI Customer Care and found an article about milti-view in a 2 x ATI 650 setup - it says currently there is no solution. I am not sure this is the same though.

I am not sure how the tuners are configured, I used the automatic configuration of MCE 2005. What utlity are you refering to in order to check on the tuner configuration? I looked in the registry but I am not sure how to interpret the data there in the Tuners key.

I will test the scenario you posted and reply with update!

[Octavean]

You can use the following utility:

Media Center Tuner Priority

One of the problems with manually configuring the tuners in the registry and possibly any other way is that the analog component will read as ATI AVStream Analog Tuner with no obvious way, AFAIK, to distinguish the two apart. The digital component of the TV Wonder 650 will read as ATI BDA Digital Tuner (not to be mistaken for the HDTV Wonder’s digital component which would read as ATI DTV Wonder Digital BDA Tuner)

I have my TV Wonder 650 installed in a system with a Theater 550 Pro and a HDTV Wonder. It was easy enough to distinguish the digital tuners but the Theater 550 Pro also reads as ATI AVStream Analog Tuner in the registry so you can imagine it was somewhat difficult to deal with,…

Anyway, when two digital tuners are installed this utility should ask you if you whish to configure them first. Selecting no will give you the option to configure your analog tuners. I would suggest that you simply try configuring the digital tuners since it gives you the option to do so first. See which is set to default and simply switch all watch and record priorities to the other digital tuner but make sure they are both enabled for use in MCE.

Take note of how it was configured before just in case you want to go back to it.

***edit***

Also take note, if your tuner configuration is comprised only of two TV Wonder 650 tuner cards then only 2x analog, 2x digital or 1x analog + 1x digital will work at any given time,…and naturally 1x analog + 1x digital will malfunction if set to run off of only one card,….