Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[vddobrev]

Octavean, I understand the limitations of the ATI 650 - that it is either analog or digital, but not both at the same time. This looks to me the basis for the problems... In the registry, there are settings for watch order and record order - they are "oposite". In my case, there are:
(values are for illustartion and do not match those in the registry, i.e. a 1 may be a 0 in the registry)
- Analog Tuner 1
watch order - 1
record order - 2
- Analog Tuner 2
watch order - 2
record order - 1

- Digital Tuner 1 (corresponds to Analog Tuner 1)
watch order - 2
record order - 1
- Digital Tuner 2 (corresponds to Analog Tuner 2)
watch order - 1
record order - 2

Now looking at the order above:
1) Start an analog recording (from the guide without going thru live TV) - Analog Tuner 2 just got into record mode and is not available.
2) Start watching Digital TV - in first order is Digital Tuner 2 but it is not available, so MCE should start using Digital Tuner 1 - it doesn't and it gives me an error

I guess this is a corner case, because I can:
- record 2 digital channels simultaneously
- record 2 analog channels simultaneously
- record 1 analog and 1 digital channels simultaneously

So in conclusion record 1 analog and watch 1 digital (and vice versa) does not work for me.

[vddobrev]

Off topic - how do I remove the TV Wonder drivers so I can install the x.199 version? I don't see an option any where for removing the driver - do I just execute the new version and it will update?

[Octavean]

Ok,….

Well,….

I prefer to try and force the use of one tuner with a bit more predictability when trying to troubleshot an issue like this.

I would suggest that analog tuner 1 be forced into a primary watch and a primary record position.

Analog tuner 2 can take on a secondary watch and a secondary record position.

Digital tuner 1 which corresponds to analog tuner 1 can then take a secondary digital tuner watch and a secondary digital tuner record position.

Digital tuner 2 which corresponds to analog tuner 2 can then take a primary digital tuner watch and a primary digital tuner record position.

This should allow for a 2x analog, 2x digital and a 1x analog + 1x digital watch record environment.

BTW, you can just install the new driver without uninstalling the old.

[denyart]

Okay, I see someone has found the same problem as me. I have the same problem. After a resume only one of the 650s will work. It is hte record 650 that works. The primary watch tuner will not. If I try to explain anything else I will merely be repeating what is already said above. It is all ditto for me except I am not using the 650s for digital TV. I have a VBox DTA 150 and a HDTV Wonder as digital tuners. I also get digital tuner unavailable errors as stated above, but I need to do more testing to see exactly when they happen. I think they happen if I have gone to standby, resumed, and then tried to use the "watch" 650 and got the error. After that point the digital tuners in my system don't work (this is going from memory though, so it may be a little off). If anyone at ATI can look into this and at least reproduce it, that would be a start. It may be linked to NVidia video drivers because if you don't see it in an ATI-based video system that would be the obvious place to start looking.

[vddobrev]

Originally Posted by Octavean

Ok,….

Well,….

I prefer to try and force the use of one tuner with a bit more predictability when trying to troubleshot an issue like this.

I would suggest that analog tuner 1 be forced into a primary watch and a primary record position.

Analog tuner 2 can take on a secondary watch and a secondary record position.

Digital tuner 1 which corresponds to analog tuner 1 can then take a secondary digital tuner watch and a secondary digital tuner record position.

Digital tuner 2 which corresponds to analog tuner 2 can then take a primary digital tuner watch and a primary digital tuner record position.

This should allow for a 2x analog, 2x digital and a 1x analog + 1x digital watch record environment.

BTW, you can just install the new driver without uninstalling the old.

I configured the tuners as you suggest, and this seems to yield better results - thanks!

The problem of only one tuner functioning when resume from stand by remains!

I installed the new drivers .199 but it did not help.
I tried every different version of nVidia drivers from 91.47 back to 81.98, still, resume from stand by results in only one tuner functioning.

[kheim]

Octavean

I have tried some but not all of your suggestions. I will try these again. Thanks

I truly don’t want to burden you with a lengthy question or answer. I’ll try to keep this brief.

Could you tell me if you have been satisfied with the OTA HDTV performance of your Windows MCE so far?
My interests are in the usefulness and portability of HD recorded files.
Less important to me would be the new comb filter support and a one button record feature.

If I go with MCE, I would be using just one ATI 650 with an ATI x1300.

I wish to get as close to TiVo like convenience, with the added open access to my recordings.

Your help has been appreciated.

[Octavean]

Kheim, although, OTA can be a rather limiting factor I have been satisfied overall with OTA digital TV and MCE 2K5 is my preferred PVR application. So I can say that I have been reasonably satisfied with my setup.

I’ll also add that there is a well-known successful hack that allows MCE 2K5 to receive HD from a small selection of HD capable “set top boxes” via FireWire. Its called “FireSTB” (or the FireSTB project) and I have all the necessary components to implement it including a supported cable STB. I have not implemented “FireSTB” and don’t intend to so I guess my current setup has been more then sufficient.

MCE records and saves files in the DVR-MS file format and HD DVR-MS files are rather large,….about ~8GB for 1HR. Therefore, I wouldn’t exactly call them portable,…

MCE 2K5 can transcode these HD files and burn them to DVD’s that will play in set top DVD players but something is lost in the process.

Since you have an X1000 class card you will have the option of using the ATI AVIVO transcode utility from within MCE. Therefore, theoretically, you should be able to transcode your HD files to another format easily (using your remote should you wish to).

I’m not really sure how well the X1300 fairs with HD media overall though,…

Using a TV Wonder 650 as your only tuner card in MCE 2K5 will mean that you would have to deal with the concurrent tuner issue likely resulting in erroneous error messages if the use of both analog and digital tuners are invoked.

MCE 2K5 installation with respect to the OS and the PVR application can be a bit tricky to setup for the uninitiated.

***edit***

Vddobrev, glad to hear those configuration changes may have helped a bit,…

That stand-by tuner issue you have sounds serious though. The use of stand-by in a MCE PC can be very important, so too can the use of all available tuners upon resume.

Have you been experiencing missed scheduled recordings due to this issue?

How do you recover from this, close/restart MCE or reboot the system?

Did you open a trouble ticked?

It looks like you and “denyart” have the same problem. Hopefully Bill T will be back soon to help you two out on this.

Hopefully, something as simple as a driver update will fix this.

[vddobrev]

Originally Posted by Octavean

Vddobrev, glad to hear those configuration changes may have helped a bit,…
That stand-by tuner issue you have sounds serious though. The use of stand-by in a MCE PC can be very important, so too can the use of all available tuners upon resume.
Have you been experiencing missed scheduled recordings due to this issue?
How do you recover from this, close/restart MCE or reboot the system?
Did you open a trouble ticked?
It looks like you and “denyart” have the same problem. Hopefully Bill T will be back soon to help you two out on this.
Hopefully, something as simple as a driver update will fix this.

Yes, stand by is very important for me.
I haven't experienced missed/scheduled recordings because all my recordings are scheduled in the evening when the PC is on anyway - but the fact is that if it came out of stand by, only one tuner is useable no matter what.
I recover from this by rebooting, simply closing MCE does not fix it.
I opened a ticket, but so far they only asked me to submit system information and a problem file generated by their utility.

[Octavean]

Well that is bloody inconvenient to say the least,….

The next time it happens try the following:

1) Exit MCE

2) Go to “Windows Task Manager” (ctrl + alt +delete)

3) Click the “Processes” tab

4) Right click everything that starts with “eh” (for example ehmsas.exe, ehtray.exe, ehRecvr.exe and so on) and then click “End Process” from the popup menu

5) Close “Windows Task Manager”

6) Restart MCE to see if you have your wayward tuner back.

It probably will not work but if it does it saves you the reboot.

BTW, what are your full system specs?

[vddobrev]

My system is:
Intel DP875PBZ motherboard
P4 3.4GHz HT
eVGA GeForce 7800GS
2GB RAM PC3200
NEC DVD+/- RW dual layer
Floppy
2 x 160GB SATA HDD Seagate
2 x ATI 650
Turtle Beach Montego DDL Sound Card

All Windows MCE 2005 updates, latest BIOS and drivers.

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by kheim

I wish to get as close to TiVo like convenience, with the added open access to my recordings.

Dump the 650 for good and get two or three KWORLD ATSC-110s at less than 70 dollars apiece. Dump Bill Gates' MCE crap and get BeyondTV. TIVO? TIVO what? Tivo is a total rip and it's not as good as two or three functioning HDTV tuners with BeyondTV. Try getting that from RIPO-TIVO.... and you'll never pay subscription.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815100140

Jonas

[vddobrev]

Originally Posted by jonaslasky

Dump the 650 for good and get two or three KWORLD ATSC-110s at less than 70 dollars apiece. Dump Bill Gates' MCE crap and get BeyondTV. TIVO? TIVO what? Tivo is a total rip and it's not as good as two or three functioning HDTV tuners with BeyondTV. Try getting that from RIPO-TIVO.... and you'll never pay subscription.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815100140

Jonas

jonaslasky, thanks for the very opinionated advise... but I am not going to do that. I don't really appreciate someone trying to talk people out of ATI TV tuners.

I have tried Beyound TV, Beyond Media, Media Portal, and a few other applications. Simply put, they are all lacking compared to MCE 2005, and that is my opinion. I will stay with MCE.

I have tried a bunch of TV tuners - ADS Tech HDTV, Hauppauge, WinTV, Fusion HDTV, your beloved KWORLD tuners, and of course ATI 550 and 650. All cards have their problems. I like the ATI tuners the most, the problem of resuming from stand by, while inconvenient, is insignificant compared to the marvelous qualities of the ATI 650.

I am pretty sure that ATI engineers will figure it out and resolve it with a driver update.

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by vddobrev

jonaslasky, thanks for the very opinionated advise... but I am not going to do that. I don't really appreciate someone trying to talk people out of ATI TV tuners.

I have tried Beyound TV, Beyond Media, Media Portal, and a few other applications. Simply put, they are all lacking compared to MCE 2005, and that is my opinion. I will stay with MCE.

I have tried a bunch of TV tuners - ADS Tech HDTV, Hauppauge, WinTV, Fusion HDTV, your beloved KWORLD tuners, and of course ATI 550 and 650. All cards have their problems. I like the ATI tuners the most, the problem of resuming from stand by, while inconvenient, is insignificant compared to the marvelous qualities of the ATI 650.

I am pretty sure that ATI engineers will figure it out and resolve it with a driver update.

Well.... clearly your opinions are not based on facts. Either that or you work for ATI. Both the T550 and the 650 have a forum full of complaints from users, that after 2 years haven't been resolved..... not even close to it. That is a fact. The T 650 came out already broken and reworked... yet, despite that rework it STILL didn't work. How much crap are you going to put up with? They've already admitted that some of those problems will never be fixed.

Clearly you are lying about having tried all those tuners. Because if you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to make ATI's pile of crap to work. I own both the Fusion HDTV and the KWorld HDTV tuners. I plugged them in, installed the drivers, set up the channels and that's that. I never had to tweak them ever again. ATI's Theater series?..... PLEASE!

So go ahead and pretend that the Theater series is so great. But reality, sadly doesn't agree with you. Whatever picture improvement there is (analog TV, digital is equal across the board), is marginal at best. You might as well keep recording with your VHS VCR. But then you're probably on ATI's payroll. I hope they pay you well.


Jonas

[vddobrev]

Originally Posted by jonaslasky

Well.... clearly your opinions are not based on facts. Either that or you work for ATI. Both the T550 and the 650 have a forum full of complaints from users, that after 2 years haven't been resolved..... not even close to it. That is a fact. The T 650 came out already broken and reworked... yet, despite that rework it STILL didn't work. How much crap are you going to put up with? They've already admitted that some of those problems will never be fixed.

Clearly you are lying about having tried all those tuners. Because if you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to make ATI's pile of crap to work. I own both the Fusion HDTV and the KWorld HDTV tuners. I plugged them in, installed the drivers, set up the channels and that's that. I never had to tweak them ever again. ATI's Theater series?..... PLEASE!

So go ahead and pretend that the Theater series is so great. But reality, sadly doesn't agree with you. Whatever picture improvement there is (analog TV, digital is equal across the board), is marginal at best. You might as well keep recording with your VHS VCR. But then you're probably on ATI's payroll. I hope they pay you well.


Jonas

Well lets just leave it at that. Everyone has their own opinions, and I don't want to argue with you. Let everyone chose the hardware and software they prefer.

[Bill T]

fanbanlo

hum.. why aren't there any T650 in Canada?

They are going to be available very soon. Hopefully there will be some on shelves by next week.


denyart & vddobrev

I am looking into this issue for you. I have passed it on to QA to see if they can reproduce the issue. I will let you know if any progress is made.

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by vddobrev

Well lets just leave it at that. Everyone has their own opinions, and I don't want to argue with you. Let everyone chose the hardware and software they prefer.

There's nothing wrong with an argument now and then, as long as we stay with the facts. You can't just make thing up as you go along.

But now that I know you're a true believer..... I have a slightly used T 550 that I'll sell you for US$74.63 plus shipping

Jonas