Theater 650 Pro Discussion

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by BFever

Multimedia Mike,

Looking to buy possibly a Theater 650 card when available but saw the review over at HTPCNews this a.m. about AverMedia's new card. Why should I buy the Theater 650 card over the AVerMedia AverTV Purity 3D MCE 250?

Linky.
http://www.htpcnews.com/index.php?op...=264&Itemid=26

Thnx,
Bfever

What about the Vbox 164e.

Cat’s Eye 164e

The Cat's Eye 164e is a revolutionary dual-channel hybrid HDTV receiver. Its two tuners allow you to view one channel while recording another, or simultaneously record two channels. Each tuner can receive either HDTV (ATSC) or analog NTSC signals, for complete flexibility

http://www.vboxcomm.com/product3.htm

(Scroll all the way to the bottom to view info on the Vbox 164e)

Drivers and documentation are already available for download and the actual card will presumably be released soon.

Therefore, functionally speaking, the Vbox 164e can do what the Theater 650 Pro can with respect to ATSC and NTSC tuning but the Vbox 164e can actually do it simultaneously whereas the Theater 650 Pro cannot. Also take note that the Vbox 164e can supposedly be configured to run dual ATSC or dual NTSC,….. simultaneously.

Pricing and availability are unknown at this time though.

***edit***

Almost forgot, the Vbox 164e is an X1 PCIe only card.

That’s unfortunate for many users but luckily my MCE systems all have PCIe slots. Hopefully they will come out with a PCI version and a USB 2.0 version though.

[hrlslcbr]

Originally Posted by Octavean

Also take note that the Vbox 164e can supposedly be configured to run dual ATSC or dual NTSC,….. simultaneously.

Looks pretty good . I'll wait for reviews (and price ) first.

Seraphic-: CRT TV's (those fat ones) display interlaced or progressive video, whereas LCD and Plasma TV's only display progressive video, so they are always equipped with deinterlacers. The DVD specs. allow you to record 480i@29.97fps and 576i@25fps video (that's NTSC and PAL, the normal TV systems every TV accepts) to a DVD, so if you display it on a CRT TV it'll display it interlaced, and if you use a Plasma or LCD, it'll be displayed as progressive video.
About the comparison between the all in wonders to the theatre 650 pro... I believe the new chip would be better than the older ones.

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by hrlslcbr

Looks pretty good . I'll wait for reviews (and price ) first.

You can find the Vbox 164e on e-bay now. I never buy from flee-bay but that’s just a matter of personal preference.


HOT!!!! VBOX CAT'S EYE 164E DUAL TUNER HDTV ATSC PCI-E


Albeit for about ~$199. Naturally I don’t know what the MSRP will be or the actual street price but I can say the same for the Theater 650 Pro. Reviews will likely trickle in soon. Here is a very brief write up, actually more of a quick spec sheet .

http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/vboxcatseye164e.html

I for one am interested in both the Theater 650 Pro and the Vbox 164e. Reviews, price and availability will be deciding factors. However, given the inherent abilities of the Vbox 164e, the Theater 650 Pro would greatly benefit from a lower price,....IMO.

But, we will see what we will see,....

[hrlslcbr]

CONS

* Just Released
* Currently no QAM support
* Works only with MCE and Beyond TV 4
* No vendor application software

This seems like an ATI product (just kidding)

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by hrlslcbr

This seems like an ATI product (just kidding)

Oooooh, nice one

But seriously, it may be too early to draw any real parallels.

A quick look at the announced supported software may be worthwhile though:

Software Support:
Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition
Microsoft® Windows® Vista
ATI Catalyst Media Center ™
Snapstream BeyondTV
Cyberlink Powercinema
Intervideo Home Theater

MCE is known to support ATSC and NTSC and Vista/Vista MCE should be no different other then added support for cable-card and the like. Vista isn’t available now but for all we know it might be before these product hit retail selves.

Do take note that Vista logo cards will likely comply with a “protected path” that many of today’s cards do not. In short, a robust DRM feature set in such cards is certain.

Cyberlink Powercinema doesn’t, AFAIK, support ATSC. Therefore, Theater 650 Pro cards that support ATSC and that ship with Powercinema will have an updated/modified version or seemingly the software wouldn’t support the ATSC feature. Again, AFAIK, the same is true of Intervideo Home Theater with respect to ATSC.

BTV, is common to the two and would seem to support the NTSC/ATSC features (as does MCE and Vista MCE).

ATI Catalyst Media Center will hopefully be what many MMC users have been waiting for. In any case, at least ATI took the time to develop their own in-house software with respect to MMC and CMC. Most MCE, future Vista MCE users and BeyondTV users probably couldn’t be bothered with either MMC or CMC though.

[Multimedia Mike]

Hi,
Alright I got comments and feedback for people (in order they were asked):
Seraphic-, regarding your questions here are some responses
1) I haven't tried a Theater 650 Pro with a PS2, but it should work just fine and is probably more dependent on what software application you use.
2) I'm not familiar with that Resource Kit and it doesn't seem like a really high priority item right now, so I can't really try it out. Maybe some other forum users here have tried it and can give some feedback.
3) I think some of the responses you've gotten have cleared this issue already.
4) I'm not really sure what you mean here, but audio and video should be in crips sync with the Theater 650 Pro.
5) Regarding your current card, I haven't tried one myself, but looking at its spec and considering you've had it for a few years, the Theater 650 Pro should be considerably better quality.
6) Really soon, stay tuned
7) Current All-In-Wonder products have the Theater 200 chip in them and the Theater 650 Pro is a lot newer and so significantly better quality.

BFever, I haven't tried out that card yet, but from reading the specs I can see that the Theater 650 Pro quality should be better. I don't want to give a sales pitch or sound like I'm bashing anyone, but have a look at the feature set yourself. Except for the Y/C separation (3D comb) all the other "features" I saw were actually MCE features rather than that of the chip/board. So if you want reasons to buy a Theater 650 Pro instead, read the list of features we offer because pretty much none of them are in that Aver card.

Octavean, thanks for bringing this card to our attention, I haven't heard of it before. Looking at it's spec though, I only have 2 words for you "software encoder". Need we say more?

[Seraphic-]

Multimedia Mike, thanks for the reply. Just a few more questions.

1. The 650 Pro is rated for 720x480, correct?
2. Does the card have an onboard hardware deinterlacer?
3. Will the card be out before this month ends and has the price been set yet?
4. If the Microsoft Resource Kit doesn't work with the 650 Pro, what would be the best way to get around the 4GB limit on video files created during a capture in Windows XP?

Thanks

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by Multimedia Mike

Octavean, thanks for bringing this card to our attention, I haven't heard of it before. Looking at it's spec though, I only have 2 words for you "software encoder". Need we say more?

No problem, don’t mention it.

The "software encoder" of which you speak never even occurred to me until you mentioned it. Naturally I haven’t made up my mind either way about either of these cards. Performance is key but so too is price, availability and possibly even user experiences.

I have used an AIW 9800 Pro in MCE and that has drawbacks,…

I used a HDTV Wonder in MCE (both NTSC and ATSC components enabled) and still do in fact,…and that has drawbacks too,…

I have used more then one Theater 550 Pro in MCE and once again, drawbacks are there.

It would be prudent IMO to expect that the same is true of the Theater 650 Pro and the Vbox 164e.


Seraphic-
With respect to number 3

Originally Posted by Seraphic-

3. If the Microsoft Resource Kit doesn't work with the 650 Pro, what would be the best way to get around the 4GB limit on video files created during a capture in Windows XP?

I know of no such limitation. In MCE, High Definition and long SD recordings may be well over 4GB.

FAT32 may have such limits but NTFS does not.

[iBlue]

Will ATI come up with a HDTV board that has both ATSC and QAM cable HDTV tuners?

Thanks in advance.

[hrlslcbr]

Originally Posted by Seraphic-

Multimedia Mike, thanks for the reply. Just a few more questions.

1. The 650 Pro is rated for 720x480, correct?
2. Does the card have an onboard hardware deinterlacer?
3. Will the card be out before this month ends and has the price been set yet?
4. If the Microsoft Resource Kit doesn't work with the 650 Pro, what would be the best way to get around the 4GB limit on video files created during a capture in Windows XP?

Thanks

1.- The 550 pro captures all possible picture information on an NTSC signal so I believe the 650 pro should too.
2.- 3.- Mike?
4.- I believe the avi container has a 4GB limit; is that what you're talking about? If not, as Octavean said, an NTFS partition doesn't have this limit (it has a limit, but you shouldn't be worried about it ). If you're talking about the avi container limit, you can use another container (ogg, Matroska, etc.), or capture to MPEG (I've captured videos >10GB and haven't had any problems).

I only have 2 words for you "software encoder"

I didn't think about that either.

[jonaslasky]

Originally Posted by hrlslcbr

4.- I believe the avi container has a 4GB limit; is that what you're talking about? If not, as Octavean said, an NTFS partition doesn't have this limit (it has a limit, but you shouldn't be worried about it ). If you're talking about the avi container limit, you can use another container (ogg, Matroska, etc.), or capture to MPEG (I've captured videos >10GB and haven't had any problems).

I keep hearing about some sort of video file size limit but I've had 32 GB video recordings. I've never noticed a limit. If you were dealing with pre-Windows XP, maybe, but not with XP as has been suggested.

Jonas

[SHSPVR]

Seraphic-

1. The 650 Pro is rated for 720x480, correct?

Well it the same as 550 so that has be YES

2. Does the card have an onboard hardware deinterlacer?

There no onboard hardware deinterlacer just Edge enhancement if want lean more see here http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm

3. Will the card be out before this month ends and has the price been set yet?

There no tell what it going cost but best guest any where from $100 to $200 and when that going to happing who know.

4. If the Microsoft Resource Kit doesn't work with the 650 Pro, what would be the best way to get around the 4GB limit on video files created during a capture in Windows XP?

All video is limited by older OS filing system Fat16/32 which is 2GB/4GB unlike NTFS which is 2TB unless the codec use is limited which is the case with some file format.

[hrlslcbr]

Originally Posted by SHSPVR

There no onboard hardware deinterlacer just Edge enhancement if want lean more see here http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm

I hope we can turn it off. I didn't know those artifacts were produced by EE. I always thought that they were produced by using too much compression.

[SHSPVR]

hrlslcbr depend if that the scheme way they be using it after there are min way to do this so it hard to say and I just take a good guest at it.
It would have been nice if ATI had posted some example demo screenshot of Edge Enhancement and Motion Compensated Noise Reduction.

[jake123]

Enough is enough, can the big mystery be told? When will the 650 be released and will ATI or who else will release it first in USA. Built an HTPC, waiting on 650 to complete. And can you advise what inputs it will support besides standard coax inputs as my receiver only outputs HDMI, SVideo, Component, no coax. If this is going to drag on and on, I'll have to look at another alternative to ATI. (no, forget the 550)

[Multimedia Mike]

Hi,
Just a few response comments:
hrlslcbr, edge enhancement is always on and you can't tweak it. However, don't worry it doesn't create artifacts and only improves the quality of the image. I can't really discuss the details of what it exactly does, but you can really see a difference if you look at edges and compare it with a product that doesn't have edge enhancement (like our previous chip, Theater 550 Pro). Same thing with the Noise Reduction, to best see it is to compare it to a product that doesn't have it.

jake123, the actual Theater 650 Pro chip is already released and available to partners. Actual boards with the Theater 650 Pro on them should be coming out really soon, but I'm not at liberty to give you an exact date on that. Theater 650 Pro products will support both Composite and S-video inputs. Stay tuned!