24/96Khz Vs 24/192Khz

3Dfx · 03-01-2004, 03:17 PM

Ok, whats the difference between a DVD player with

24bit 192Khz & another with 24bit 96Khz...???

I've seen cheap DVD players use 192Khz, and expensive ones use 96Khz... but I've also seen Expensive ones use 192Khz... argh....

Howard · 03-01-2004, 04:47 PM

"xxKHZ" is the maximum sampling rate (of the digital audio) that it can decode. Generally, the higher the better. But it depends on the quality of the DAC.

5lab · 03-01-2004, 04:58 PM

i believe that 192 is needed for sacd/dvda but i might be wrong. as with everything hifi thou, a bigger number doesnt mean it'll sound better.

Howard · 03-01-2004, 05:09 PM

No only if you're buying decent quality equipment. It doesn't really apply if you're buying supermarket players

Rave · 03-01-2004, 07:25 PM

TBH I have my doubts that the human ear can tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192. 96KHz sampling rate is high enough to have a fairly smooth rolloff filter from about 35KHz up, and I doubt we're capable of hearing harmonics that high.

Rich :¬)

Theo · 05-01-2004, 12:10 AM

Supposedly, the human ear can't tell the difference in sound quality with bitrates and frequencies of 128kbps and 22Khz and above. I do disagree with this however, because in my personal experience I have been able to tell the difference between 128kbps and 192kbps, and 192kbps and 320kbps. The same with frequencies - there is a noticable difference between a track recorded with 22khz and 44khz. CD standard is 48Khz iirc.

5lab · 05-01-2004, 12:29 AM

your mixed up there theo. your thinking of khz not kbps. theres no tests that show the human ear cant detect difference of mp3 quality

3Dfx · 05-01-2004, 12:32 AM

so... is 24bit 96Khz any good?

Theo · 05-01-2004, 12:47 AM

http://www.bolton.ac.uk/staff/dmm1/d...gitalAudio.ppt

I think I covered both, iirc, 5lab

Rave · 05-01-2004, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Theo
Supposedly, the human ear can't tell the difference in sound quality with bitrates and frequencies of 128kbps and 22Khz and above. I do disagree with this however, because in my personal experience I have been able to tell the difference between 128kbps and 192kbps, and 192kbps and 320kbps. The same with frequencies - there is a noticable difference between a track recorded with 22khz and 44khz. CD standard is 48Khz iirc.

Hmm, well I'm a bit of a deaf git and I'd probably struggle to tell the difference between 128 and 192 in a double blind test, but who knows.

In any case, there's a reason why 96KHz might sound better than 44.1KHz sampling (which is the CD's sample rate, DAT is 48KHz). The human ear can in theory hear sounds up to 20KHz; some people claim that the ear can detect harmonics above this frequency while not being able to hear them on their own; I've never seen any hard evidence for this. Now a 44.1KHz sampler can reproduce sounds up to 22.05KHz, which should in theory be enough. Unfortunately though, any frequency above 22.05 entering the ADC will cause aliasing, so the recorders have a 'Brick Wall' filter with a very sharp rolloff above 20KHz. The trouble is that this kind of filter causes resonance effects or something like that, which compromises the sound quality.

If you have a 96KHz sampling rate, you can have a filter with a smooth rolloff starting at maybe 35-40KHz, well above the threshold of human hearing, and with no nasty resonance effects. 192KHz really doesn't provide any additional benefit to justify it's 100% data increase, as far as I can see.

As for going from 16 to 24 bit sampling....I'm not convinced of the benefits of that either, but that's only a 50% BW increase so never mind

.

If anyone who really knows about audio wants to pick holes in that: please do

. I've probably made some mistakes (in terminology if nothing else) and it could probably be explained better.

Rich :¬)

3Dfx · 05-01-2004, 11:26 AM

so whats better to have???

96Khz or 192KHz?

Theo · 05-01-2004, 12:30 PM

192KHz.

3Dfx · 05-01-2004, 01:15 PM

argh! ... even some £600 Marantz units only have 96Khz!!

Rave · 05-01-2004, 01:34 PM

Don't worry about it mate. If you buy a DVD-A player it should be good enough to cope with anything you throw at it.

Rich :¬)

Theo · 05-01-2004, 01:35 PM

Maybe I'm wrong... but have a look at the powerpoint presentation I posted. I don't think I'm wrong, though... I'm pretty sure I'm not.

3Dfx · 05-01-2004, 01:41 PM

If you buy a DVD-A player it should be good enough to cope with anything you throw at it.

Nah im just looking at the Marantz DV4300 and its a 96Khz 24bit machine... and its like £300+ ... and doesnt even play SACD/DVD-A

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