Banding in LCD Gradients how common?

[Gunbuster]

Hi All,
I noticed that my mates 32" Samsung R74 series had noticeable banding in gradients, like skies or waves on the PS3 XMB.

I am looking to go HD later this year, so if you could post your TV details and whether you get Banding or anyother oddities it would be of great help.

[directhex]

which input are you getting banding on?

[Gunbuster]

It was via HDMI. We checked the settings for aggresive sharping and others with no luck.

[bigblue]

I think it's very common, sadly, with both LCD and Plasma. Mainly with ones that haven't been set-up or calibrated though.

Picture processing often has a lot to do with it, and I've never seen a TV that looked better with any form of supposed "improvements" switched on.

Basic picture controls can help a great deal too. Turning brightness, contrast and colour down to a more realistic level usually makes a huge difference.

Most TV's usually come from the factory with ridiculous settings because they look good on a retail shop floor. They're grossly over-saturated, just so they stand out. When you turn them down, especially if you've had the set for a while, the picture seems a little washed out. But after you live with it for a while, your eyes adjust, and if you try one of the manufacturer presets (usually "Vivid" by default for many sets) you'll be shocked just how bad the image is.

With the monitor I'm using now, if I turn it to any of NEC's preset modes... banding ahoy ! With sensible settings, I never see any banding whatsoever.

[Gunbuster]

We tried fiddling with contrast, brightness and saturation with no luck. I just think he was unlucky.

I agree wholheartedly with what you are saying though.

[bigblue]

If you've had a good fiddle, I guess he must just have been unlucky

I've read and experienced many issues with Samsung sets. Their DNIe system seems a bit of an annoyance

[Gunbuster]

From a personal point of view: I don't know if I should wait for the 2008 models to come out, buy a cheap and cheerful set that I can forgive for the price or just wait another 6 months. My current goldfish bowl 28" 4:3 Samung is starting to irk me.

Generally am I better to sort out HD sources first (ps3/360) then change telly? Sorry this is OT but you seem clued up BigBlue and I'd just like to pick your brain.

[bigblue]

No worries, I don't know how clued up I actually am, but I'll try !

I think there's very good sets on the market just now, depending on your preferences, but it's a constantly evolving market. If you wait a few months you'll get something better (maybe improved 1080/24 performance, LED backlighting etc.) or current sets cheaper, but that's always the way with any tech product.

I'd personally rather have a plasma than LCD. But that's very much personal preference. I just can't take LCD's current trade offs, but other people may dislike plasma trade offs more !

The console HD source market is fairly settled, so it's maybe safer buying them first ? I'm sure there'll be continued advances (such as the slim PS3) and continued price cuts, but you've gotta buy at some point ! The longer you wait the less use you're getting out of them. You can obviously use them just now with your CRT, and you'll have a good library by the time you buy your display.

I'd avoid buying a cheap LCD though, you could well end up with poorer image quality than you get from your CRT !

[Gunbuster]

Thanks BigBlue, I'll take that onboard.

[bigblue]

I'm probably better at answering more specific questions, I'm a mine of useless facts in that way ! Ask me something technical and I'll probably ramble far less

I guess it all comes down to what you want to use it for, and what you want to use it with.

There's numerous threads on AV Forums regarding the whole plasma vs LCD thing, might be worth having a peep there if you haven't already ?

But it is a tricky thing to decide on, there's something new every 5 minutes !

[Gunbuster]

I'm sure half of it is just the itch to spend money. Also a bit of envy as my mate has the lot (HDTV, PS3 & 360). I have a dual LNB satellite dish I use on a FTA/Freeview box for recording shows. If Freesat ever shows up I think that will be the killer for me as all the bases will then be covered; Films, Broadcast TV and Games.

I am so out of date even my surround sound is Dolby Pro Logic! We should start a spoof SDTV setup thread. I am sure I can find my old VHS and tag team it with my Dreamcast.

Out of interest who would you recommend for Plasmas? Panasonic seem good, anyone else worth considering?

[bigblue]

Yeah, Panasonic are very good, and if you're considering them it's also worth considering their professional panels, which come with a longer warranty, and as the hi-fi press would put it... "bomb-proof build" You'll no doubt have seen them in airports or similar ! They look a bit basic, or stylishly minimalist, depending on your point of view

They're just releasing new consumer ranges, PX 8/80/85/800 etc. which all have differing specs. The popular one will be the 80, which is 720p, and about £750-£800 for 42". Too soon for performance reports, although they're slowly being delivered to AV nerds across the web !

Pioneer are great too, and probably have the performance edge, though they're more expensive.

Good place to start if you're looking for a plasma is Costco. They usually have a decent range at good prices, and they give a free 3 yr warranty. If you want a bit of service, a proper demo, and don't mind paying a little more, John Lewis are great. They offer price matching (on the high st.) and a free 5yr warranty.

If you're thinking of upgrading the sound side at the same time you'll get some decent package deals !

[Gunbuster]

I saw a 37" PX80 yesterday, did look nice. Thought the pixels/elements seemed abit obvious. The default setup seemed a lot more natural that the contrasted to hell Samsung next to it. I like Samsung products, I just hate how over cooked the defaults are. There was a 40" Toshiba LCD as well, that looked nice. They all thought reminded me of how important good sources are, as the freeview source looked awful.

[bigblue]

Yeah, the sets are usually all set to "stun"

Even the ones that look fairly natural in the shop are often eye-searingly strong when you get one home. I know the shops have to compensate for fluorescent lighting, but more should go along the JL/Currys route and have some screens (usually the premium ones) in a backlit area where you can judge them fairly.

With 42" 720 sets, if you stand too close to them the picture make-up does seem a little prominent, but its usually fine from normal viewing distance. I'd go for a 1080p though, as these aren't too much now, but it's just finding one that implements 24fps properly (despite what they say on the stickers !).

I'm actually having to do a bit more research into this, as it looks like we're definitely moving to a flat where my rear pro will be unwelcome ! Not really seen much that instantly grabs me, other than the current (and possibly last proper...) Pioneers. There will be a lot of gaming though, so screen burn is a worry. I've got irritating retention on my PC monitor, and it would horrify me if I got something like that permanently burnt into a 2k screen

Ah well, off to Costco tomorrow, where I'll have a good fiddle

[Gunbuster]

How big is your RP TV? they allways looked a bit dull in shops, or is that the effect of strip lighting?

[bigblue]

It's 55", the Sony 55A2000

I think a lot of the time when RP's are in shops, they look dull because they're/you're not at the right height. If they're on the floor, and you're standing up... crouch ! Then all is well ! RP's of old used to struggle with daylight to the extent that you had to close the curtains, but it's nowt like that now, and my TV is great, even with the sun streaming in.

RP's do have a "sweet spot" to some extent, if you sit too far off-axis it gets a little dull, same effect as standing at a different height to the screen. It's not noticeable at all in day to day use though.

LCD's always look the brightest, but that's usually because the whole panel is backlit. Which is more of a curse than a blessing, as it causes the afterglow sort of effects which can cause what seems like motion smearing. The new LED backlit panels should be better, but they're prohibitively expensive just now, and I guess the technology isn't yet mature.

Plasma's are a little duller than LCD's, but I feel they more than make up for it in other ways. Picture just looks more natural to me, though I guess others would prefer LCD's "punch" and sharpness. You pay's yer money...