surround sound setup on hdtv

[danroyle]

am having issues with setup of my hdtv and surround sound.

i have 5.1 and it works on my dvd player but not direct from my tv i'd like to be able to switch it on when watching a normal tv program.

i have a toshiba regza 32av555db. http://www.home-entertainment.toshib...-TV-AV-Series/

i have run phono cables (red+white) from the sub to the phono ports on the back of the tv but nothing comes out.
there is a manual on the link page 7 shows all the connectors on the back

am i setting it up wrong any help hugely apreciated.

[DeludedGuy]

I think you need to buy a reciever.

[danroyle]

Originally Posted by DeludedGuy

I think you need to buy a reciever.

what kind.

and how come i can get my sky box dvd player etc to work on the surround sound and not the tv

[shaithis]

So you have a 5.1 surround system?

What exactly are the speakers plugged into?

If they are plugged into the TV directly, then the reason you are not getting 5.1 sound is because the freeview broadcasts do not have 5.1 sound, they only carry dolby pro logic via a stereo signal that is matrixed into a pseudo-surround sound.

If the speakers are plugged into an amplifier/receiver, then you need to run an optical cable from your TV or freeview box to the amp and set the amp to that input.

[danroyle]

Originally Posted by shaithis

So you have a 5.1 surround system?

What exactly are the speakers plugged into?

If they are plugged into the TV directly, then the reason you are not getting 5.1 sound is because the freeview broadcasts do not have 5.1 sound, they only carry dolby pro logic via a stereo signal that is matrixed into a pseudo-surround sound.

If the speakers are plugged into an amplifier/receiver, then you need to run an optical cable from your TV or freeview box to the amp and set the amp to that input.

i have a surround sound system but it only has phono inputs on it so cant run an optical to it. the surround sound also doesn't work on anologue tv either.

[shaithis]

What is the surround sound system? Seems odd that if it is 5.1 it does not have optical....unless of course it has a digital coaxial input instead....

Analogue TV is the same as freeview - stereo signal. Your not going to get 5.1 on terrestrial TV until HD broadcasts start and you have a DVB-T2 compliant set top box.

[danroyle]

Originally Posted by shaithis

What is the surround sound system? Seems odd that if it is 5.1 it does not have optical....unless of course it has a digital coaxial input instead....

Analogue TV is the same as freeview - stereo signal. Your not going to get 5.1 on terrestrial TV until HD broadcasts start and you have a DVB-T2 compliant set top box.

just spoke to toshiba my tv doesn't support surround sound

[Zak33]

nope..it doesn't.

BUT,,,,, there are different kinds of surround sound

Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1 use seperately encoded channels of sound for each speaker, but because normal TV isn't broadcast like that, it won't work.. When a DVD is made, someone decides which sound will come from wich speaker... and some films aredone well and some done badly. But it's all 5.1.

But TV won't do it... not enough room in a tv transmission for 6 channels of sound. We're lucky to get 2....

Which is why,,, long before 5.1 was famous... Pro Logic was invented

IF your surround sound system supports Dolby Pro Logic (or Pro Logic 2) then it take a STEREO signal (red and white) and it splits out the voice for the front centre speaker, it thrrows the stereo signalls to the left and right fron speaker, the bass to the bass box... and it INVENTS a rear channel... it creates one, and it throws it to the rear speakers. BUT the rear is in MONO and is not detailed sound.

But it IS great for Football, and it adds lots of depth to films, even if it's not accurate.

So.... does your 5.1 system have stereo inputs (red and white) and does it have a Dolby Pro Logic button?

While we're at it.... DVD's NEED to send proper 5.1 via a digital cable.. it's EITHER a black phono style lead (looks like the red and white one, but there's only one of them) OR it uses a fibre optic cable (little square plug, not very bendy wire )

Some systems have BOTH those kind of inputs... for two inputs, like DVD and PS3)

Both are called SPDIF (Sony Philips Digital InterFace)

[TLO]

To be pedantic, Dolby Pro Logic, Pro Logic 2, DTS:ES and other matrix surround schemes do not 'invent' channels - the rear channel is encoded by altering the phase of the rear channels and mixing them into the stereo pair. The rear channels of DPL2 and DTS:ES are full range and stereo, DPL2 encoding is used to good effect with the Wii for example.

Looking at the spec of Danroyle's TV it only has a analogue audio input, not an output which would be why connecting the TV to the surround setup doesn't work... The TV does have SCART sockets and a SCART to phono adapter can be used to provide audio outputs: http://www.pcarena.co.uk/product_inf...f2fd6e5931ec82

[danroyle]

Originally Posted by Zak33

nope..it doesn't.

BUT,,,,, there are different kinds of surround sound

Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1 use seperately encoded channels of sound for each speaker, but because normal TV isn't broadcast like that, it won't work.. When a DVD is made, someone decides which sound will come from wich speaker... and some films aredone well and some done badly. But it's all 5.1.

But TV won't do it... not enough room in a tv transmission for 6 channels of sound. We're lucky to get 2....

Which is why,,, long before 5.1 was famous... Pro Logic was invented

IF your surround sound system supports Dolby Pro Logic (or Pro Logic 2) then it take a STEREO signal (red and white) and it splits out the voice for the front centre speaker, it thrrows the stereo signalls to the left and right fron speaker, the bass to the bass box... and it INVENTS a rear channel... it creates one, and it throws it to the rear speakers. BUT the rear is in MONO and is not detailed sound.

But it IS great for Football, and it adds lots of depth to films, even if it's not accurate.

So.... does your 5.1 system have stereo inputs (red and white) and does it have a Dolby Pro Logic button?

While we're at it.... DVD's NEED to send proper 5.1 via a digital cable.. it's EITHER a black phono style lead (looks like the red and white one, but there's only one of them) OR it uses a fibre optic cable (little square plug, not very bendy wire )

Some systems have BOTH those kind of inputs... for two inputs, like DVD and PS3)

Both are called SPDIF (Sony Philips Digital InterFace)

cheers knew all this anyway but i know my dvd player and xbox dont get proper surround sound from my surround sound setup and that my system essentially forces the sound.

However the effect does still work when i sit down with the missus and watch supernatural the sounds combined with whats going on on the telly make her jump

I think i am gonna invest in an external freeview box rather than the built in one so i can have at least some degree of surround sound (especially as the toshiba freeview player built in is awful and slow to use)

[Zak33]

danroyle... please telll us, WHICH exact surround system you have. Link it for us if ytou can. You might be able to suss this a lot easier than you think

I worry that you have a DVD player and aren't getting 5.1 from it. Which DVD player is it please? While you're asking this, you might as well get it set up properly and the cables might be dead cheap to sort it.

[danroyle]

Originally Posted by Zak33

danroyle... please telll us, WHICH exact surround system you have. Link it for us if ytou can. You might be able to suss this a lot easier than you think

I worry that you have a DVD player and aren't getting 5.1 from it. Which DVD player is it please? While you're asking this, you might as well get it set up properly and the cables might be dead cheap to sort it.

my surround sound is a neutac 5.1 setup i bought it for my pc and xbox a few years ago.
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Perip...roductId=25073
connections on the back are all phono it has input for centre/sub, front left/right and rear left/right. which i ran 3.5mm to phono cables from the back of the pc to it to get 5.1. it then also has phono inputs for PC, CD and TV single input for each and if i remember rightly from the manual it is supposed to decode the sound from those and give surround sound effect.

my dvd player is a toshiba sd490ekb hdmi upscaling dvd player.
i have no optical or SP/dif input/outputs on any of my gear

hope this helps

[Zak33]

Originally Posted by TLO

To be pedantic, Dolby Pro Logic, Pro Logic 2, DTS:ES and other matrix surround schemes do not 'invent' channels - the rear channel is encoded by altering the phase of the rear channels and mixing them into the stereo pair. The rear channels of DPL2 and DTS:ES are full range and stereo, DPL2 encoding is used to good effect with the Wii for example.

Looking at the spec of Danroyle's TV it only has a analogue audio input, not an output which would be why connecting the TV to the surround setup doesn't work... The TV does have SCART sockets and a SCART to phono adapter can be used to provide audio outputs: http://www.pcarena.co.uk/product_inf...f2fd6e5931ec82

I agree that ProLogic 2 works well in Wii, but when I say "invent" I do mean that in all of Pro Logic 1 stuff, the original material is stereo. So it has "created" extra channels. The word invent was out of contaxt though... it's more like "creation from original material"... The Centre channel is a creation, an algorythmn tries to take the voices out of the stereo channels and put those voices into a centre voice channel. And that's why different pieces of hardware can do it in varying levels of success.
The rear channels are similar, and while it comes from the original stereo source, and as yuo say, they are put out of phase to create rear effects, it has to be created by the Pro Logic hardware, which in turn is the creation of the hardware's ability to make good judgements on which note should go where.

With a 5.1 source, DD or DTS, the 6 tracks are already on the DVD, and the hardware just pulls the channels apart from within the digital stream. The choice of which note goes to which speaker was authored by the DVD creator, not the hardware in your living room.

[Zak33]

Originally Posted by danroyle

my surround sound is a neutac 5.1 setup i bought it for my pc and xbox a few years ago.
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Perip...roductId=25073
connections on the back are all phono it has input for centre/sub, front left/right and rear left/right. which i ran 3.5mm to phono cables from the back of the pc to it to get 5.1. it then also has phono inputs for PC, CD and TV single input for each and if i remember rightly from the manual it is supposed to decode the sound from those and give surround sound effect.

my dvd player is a toshiba sd490ekb hdmi upscaling dvd player.
i have no optical or SP/dif input/outputs on any of my gear

hope this helps

Nutac's website is so slow I gave up, so I'll use your (very good) descriptions of the inputs.

The individual inputs on your speakers setup, for the front L/R and rear L/R and Centre/Bass with mini jacks to your PC sound card, implies that the surround speakers don't have a Dolby Digital decoder within them. This is quite normal for PC speakers, as pc sound cards tend NOT to be able to encode dolby digital "live" or "on the fly" while you're gaming, so you use analogue inputs from the PC t the sound system.

But your Toshiba may wel be able to send a proper 5.1 sound signal, via the HDMI cable to a hi def tv with surround sound built in, but that's not gonna help you tbh without spending mammoth dough on a new tv etc.

So... are you making the most of what you have?

I'd compare what a film SOUNDS like when played through your PC to those speakers. Because your sound card will prolly send a full 5.1 sound arena to your speakers via a DVD software suite.

Then compare it with how the rear voices, noises etc on your favourite films sound aganst the same film on your Toshiba DVD player to your telly and using just the stereo inputs.