Sony unveils first AVCHD hi-def cams - one hard-disk, one DVD

[Bob Crabtree]

UPDATE - JULY 22 - 12:03

This thread originally pointed to a press release (and info about that is at the end of this posting).

But a (hopefully more useful) news story has been written and details of that are directly below.

Late last week, Panasonic and Sony unveiled a raft of changes to AVCHD - the hi-def consumer camcorder format that the two companies first announced back in early May and are aiming at owners of HD TV sets. This week, Sony released some (but not all) details of its first two AVCHD models, due September. One records to DVD, as per the original spec, but the other uses a hard disk - reflecting one of the three main changes seen in the revised specs for this MPEG-4-based camcorder standard.

Panasonic has yet to give news of its own AVCHD camcorder launches but a phone call today to the company's UK offices did reveal that an announcement is pending.

As you can see from the two tables below, the original proposed recording media - 8cm DVDs - has been joined not just by hard disks but also by two types of memory card - and what they are isn't hard to guess. Sony's own Memory Stick format is included, of course, and so is - as per Panasonic's proposal in mid-May - SD (Secure Digital), the format developed by Panasonic in collaboration with SanDisk and Toshiba.

Check out this latest HEXUS.headline.


THE PREVIOUS POSTING IS BELOW

Two new Disc/Disk-based Sony HD Camcorders

Sony continues to define the future of the Camcorder with the launch of two new High Definition models and a new standard for HD video recording. AVCHD was developed to provide a way of recording 1080i HD video to various media, including DVD and hard disk.

Both the launch of the camcorders and the creation of AVCHD demonstrate Sony’s commitment to HD and its pivotal role in this rapidly developing sector.

While there are key similarities between the two models, there is also an essential difference, which allows users to choose the one which suits them best.

The HDR-UX1E is unique: the first ever HD camcorder to record to an 8cm DVD, literally archiving as you film, using an inexpensive, durable medium.

The HDR-SR1E also employs the new AVCHD format for HD recording, but captures the AV stream to an internal 30GB hard disk rather than 8cm DVD.

HDR-UX1E hard disk AVCHD cam

We'll be doing a story soon, but thought you ought to see this release asap.

Check out the full release while you're waiting.

[Funkstar]

Really like the sound of the HDR-UX1E (HDD based)

Any idea if they can SD at increased frame rates like the HDR-HC3E? Apparently you can record at either 50 or 60 fps (PAL or NTSC) and then play it back at 25/30 for slow motion scenes.

[Bob Crabtree]

Originally Posted by Funkstar

Really like the sound of the HDR-UX1E (HDD based)

Any idea if they can SD at increased frame rates like the HDR-HC3E? Apparently you can record at either 50 or 60 fps (PAL or NTSC) and then play it back at 25/30 for slow motion scenes.

Sorry, that was a WYSIWYG press release!

I've actually managed to glean a bit more info - such as pricing (£1,000 for DVD, £1,100 for hard disk) and availability (September) - and have included all the info I have in a news story that will go live shortly.

But your question isn't answered by any of the info Sony has made available, though it might be in the full specs, which I've asked for a good few times now and still haven't received.

[Bob Crabtree]

This thread originally pointed to a press release but a (hopefully more useful) news story has been written and details of that are directly below.

Late last week, Panasonic and Sony unveiled a raft of changes to AVCHD - the hi-def consumer camcorder format that the two companies first announced back in early May and are aiming at owners of HD TV sets. This week, Sony released some (but not all) details of its first two AVCHD models, due September. One records to DVD, as per the original spec, but the other uses a hard disk - reflecting one of the three main changes seen in the revised specs for this MPEG-4-based camcorder standard.

Panasonic has yet to give news of its own AVCHD camcorder launches but a phone call today to the company's UK offices did reveal that an announcement is pending.

As you can see from the two tables below, the original proposed recording media - 8cm DVDs - has been joined not just by hard disks but also by two types of memory card - and what they are isn't hard to guess. Sony's own Memory Stick format is included, of course, and so is - as per Panasonic's proposal in mid-May - SD (Secure Digital), the format developed by Panasonic in collaboration with SanDisk and Toshiba.

Check out this latest HEXUS.headline.

[Jonny M]

What does AVCHD do that HDV doesn't?

[Bob Crabtree]

Originally Posted by Caged

What does AVCHD do that HDV doesn't?

First, HDV is tape only whereas AVCHD offers the immediate access made possible by using optical discs, hard disks or memory cards.

Then AVCHD offers built-in support for Dolby surround sound (though how many camcorders will have suitable mics or be used with suitable external mics is open to question).

But, probably (possibly?) most important of all, AVCHD can support capture resolutions up to 1920x1080, whereas the highest res possible from HDV is, I think, 1440x1080 - though this is scaled up to 1920 x 1080 for playback.

Also, the capture data rate of HDV is fixed, whereas its variable with AVCHD and somewhat smaller even at its highest resolution than HDV - and considerably smaller at lower hi-def resolutions than the maximum.

There may be other factors, but I can't see what they might be.

[Funkstar]

From what i can gather, AVCHD disks should be playable in BlueRay players. I'm assuming that is means you could pop the disk out and stick it into a player and it will work. Great.

According to WikiPedia, the AVCHD is based round a MPEG-2 Transport Stream (when they came up with MPEG-2, it seams they did it right).

what about if you were to download the files from the camcorders HD and author it into a BlueRay or HD-DVD disk? would the stream need to be transcoded or the container get changed?

I'm guessing a lot of the finer points won't become clear until these cameras are released and someone gets their grubby little hands on them and a hi-def burner or two

[Bob Crabtree]

Originally Posted by Funkstar

From what i can gather, AVCHD disks should be playable in BlueRay players.

Indeed, as the news story explains.

I'm assuming that is means you could pop the disk out and stick it into a player and it will work. Great.

I'm not so sure about that. There may be some need for the disc to be finalled - but there's no info about that that I can find.

According to WikiPedia, the AVCHD is based round a MPEG-2 Transport Stream

Indeed, as the chart in the news story shows. But the encoding is MPEG-4/H-264

what about if you were to download the files from the camcorders HD and author it into a BlueRay or HD-DVD disk? would the stream need to be transcoded or the container get changed?

Pass.

I'm guessing a lot of the finer points won't become clear until these cameras are released and someone gets their grubby little hands on them and a hi-def burner or two

For sure.

[Jonny M]

So is HDV going to disappear then?