Electric cars - a arguement for them, an argument against them

[Zhaoman]

For very many reasons electric cars will not be feasible for a while yet. That's still more than can be said for petrol cars which never were feasible in the long run. Once petrol prices rise to a certain point most people will be forced to take the buses. I can't see anything else happening unless there are major breakthroughs in battery density, infrastructure investment, and a change in attitude towards nuclear power.

[DanceswithUnix]

... and a change in attitude towards nuclear power.

This.

Electric cars are totally feasible right now, but most people seem squeemish at the idea of having a small portable nucear generator in the boot.

[jimbouk]

Electric cars are totally feasible right now, but most people seem squeemish at the idea of having a small portable nucear generator in the boot.

How small can they make a nuclear generator? (Theoretically, not practically now.) I'm all up for the Asimov style portable nuclear generator on your belt but I think there's a limit as to how small they can be.

[pauleden]

Oh, well spotted! That's actually an SRI CDTI. What appalling behaviour.

Actually, I've done similar things at my local supermarket - take pictures that is.

[Sputnik]

They should bring in a rule that says that if you park over the lines, They are allowed to paint the line over your car.

The only way I could see electric cars being viable is if they all used the same quick release type battery and you could simple change battery and go(at Battery stations).

While 100mile range is acceptable for people just doing the town driving taking kids to school etc, It is no good for people doing 200-300 miles a day unless you can fully recharge it in less than 15 minutes.

[mikerr]

How small can they make a nuclear generator? (Theoretically, not practically now.) I'm all up for the Asimov style portable nuclear generator on your belt but I think there's a limit as to how small they can be.

Instead of nuclear fission as in nuclear reactors (smallest is probably those used in nuclear subs...)
the other way is RTGs which use the heat generated by radioisotope decay.

RTGs are widely used in satellites and used to be used in Russia in lighthouses.
Given they output power continuously for 30+ years with no refuelling, you could have a "free energy" car needing no refuelling ever for its lifetime.
Or have one in the shed powering your house off grid.

Returning to the OP - those charging points are free aren't they - so you could theoretically have no fuel costs if you live near a tesco ?

[pauleden]

The only way I could see electric cars being viable is if they all used the same quick release type battery and you could simple change battery and go(at Battery stations).

While 100mile range is acceptable for people just doing the town driving taking kids to school etc, It is no good for people doing 200-300 miles a day unless you can fully recharge it in less than 15 minutes.

Absolutely right. We're stuck in the 'refill/recharge' mentality. If we look at industry, where electric vehicles are common and long recharges are not acceptable, they use a common, replaceable battery system. When the battery needs recharging, you remove it, put it on charge and replace it with one that's already charged. The process can even be fully automated.

I've seen forklifts that go 24 hours a day and the robotised battery change system can get a vehicle back to work in 4 minutes, about the same time it takes to refuel a car.

[Zhaoman]

The infrastructure needs to be there though. The battery in current electric cars can weigh hundreds of kilos, fueling stations will have to be upgraded with the right facilities to give you that kind of instant battery change service. And you certainly won't be lugging around another battery with you so they'd probably 'buy' your old depleted battery and 'sell' you their fully charged one when you go to recharge. This is unless there are some major breakthroughs in battery energy density.

Batteries don't last forever either, the cost of refueling and replacing batteries currently is far more than buying a petrol powered car and only paying for petrol. Of course in time petrol will become prohibitively expensive, but again there must be major breakthroughs in battery manufacture and power generation to make prices for electric cars come down. Or else we are left all being forced to get the bus (which is probably the only sustainable solution all along). The idea that every person/family can have their own personal 'car' is a 20th Century American idea that is slowly looking more and more out-dated.

[jimbouk]

They should bring in a rule that says that if you park over the lines, They are allowed to paint the line over your car.

And you certainly won't be lugging around another battery with you so they'd probably 'buy' your old depleted battery and 'sell' you their fully charged one when you go to recharge. This is unless there are some major breakthroughs in battery energy density.

I imagine it would be a rental system, you pay a deposit and a monthly/per swap fee to exchange. This would require global government and manufacturers working to a standard - can't imagine that happening any time soon...

[DanceswithUnix]

How small can they make a nuclear generator? (Theoretically, not practically now.) I'm all up for the Asimov style portable nuclear generator on your belt but I think there's a limit as to how small they can be.

Well at one extreme there was a really cute design for converting beta particles into energy by making them charge little cantilevers so that they flex to discharge, and using piezoelectric transducers & rectifiers to convert that to a voltage. Idea was to make it into a device half the size of a cellphone battery so that a phone could charge itself when not in use. Edit to add: the phone would then have a half size battery so the overall form factor didn't change.

But for this I was thinking suitcase sized. They seem to pop up often enough that they must be viable, but never seem to get anywhere. A quick google for "suitcase sized nuclear reactor" turned this up:
http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/5...moon-nasa.html
40kW is more power than my first car had from it's petrol engine and should push you along the motorway OK. Would be just as gutless as my first car (a 1975 Mini) unless you gave it a small battery that could give you say 30s of acceleration at ~200kW. I would buy that.

[directhex]

This.

Electric cars are totally feasible right now, but most people seem squeemish at the idea of having a small portable nucear generator in the boot.

[Sputnik]

They would have brought a whole new meaning to the term 'crashed and burned'

[Sputnik]

How small can they make a nuclear generator? (Theoretically, not practically now.) I'm all up for the Asimov style portable nuclear generator on your belt but I think there's a limit as to how small they can be.

Very small it seems. http://gajitz.com/pocket-size-power-...clear-battery/

[directhex]

They would have brought a whole new meaning to the term 'crashed and burned'

The Nucleon was just such an inspired idea though. If you've played Fallout 3, you'll notice that every motor vehicle in the game looks like a version of the Nucleon, for good reason

[DanceswithUnix]

Love that picture of the Nucleon car, almost looks sensible.

Side view shows massive front overhang, like a family Pink Panther mobile

ofc is they expected the generator to weight 3 tons then perhaps they needed that overhang to get a 50/50 weight split on the axles for good handling?

[Agent]

Very small it seems. http://gajitz.com/pocket-size-power-...clear-battery/

That's awesome.

Depends on the application, but for getting around town: Air powered cars!

http://www.mdi.lu/english/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpxhlX4Ga0

MDI / Tata have been making some interesting advancements recently. Good distance, decent speed, fast refills and compressed air is pretty safe.

I know India was looking into them quite seriously where they suit huge numbers of the population.