Recommend a cheap and reliable diesel...

[PowerPie5000]

Hi all, i'm currently driving a 2001 Ford Focus (1.6, 16V petrol) and i'm looking to buy a cheap and reliable diesel, but not sure which one yet .

These are what i've been looking at (i'm on a fairly tight budget at the moment):

1. Volvo S40 or V40 (around 02-03).
2. Ford Focus 1.8 TDCI or TDDI (i prefer the MK1/1.5 and hear the TDDi is a bit more solid than the newer TDCI)... must be newer than 2001 due to the rust issues along bottom of doors and below wing mirrors etc (like mine ).
3. Rover 75 with 2.0 BMW diesel engine (just have to keep an eye on the plenum drains )... Probably as good as Rover ever got.
4. Renault Laguna
5. Nissan Primera
6. Fiat Stilo

Feel free to suggest any others... The main thing i'm worried about are dodgy fuel injectors (i mainly hear about this regarding Mondeo's).


Cheers

[Guy]

What's your annual mileage, and rough budget?

[PowerPie5000]

What's your annual mileage, and rough budget?

Annual mileage is not much - probably around 10k at most. My budget is around £2,500 plus whatever i can get for my 2001 Focus (which has done 89k and had new cambelt, pulley and tensioner kit fitted around 1k ago... Does have a bit of rust along the bottom of the rear doors which is common).

[Guy]

For that sort of mileage you really don't need a diesel. You'd have to keep the car for a long time before you broke even over the equivalent petrol. Plus you'll usually find there is less to go wrong, no high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, or turbos. Plus you'll have more haggling power when looking for a petrol as everyone seems to think they're the devil!

Although gotta ask, sounds like the Focus is still more than capable. Why not just spend a little bit on it and keep it?

[PowerPie5000]

For that sort of mileage you really don't need a diesel. You'd have to keep the car for a long time before you broke even over the equivalent petrol. Plus you'll usually find there is less to go wrong, no high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, or turbos. Plus you'll have more haggling power when looking for a petrol as everyone seems to think they're the devil!

Although gotta ask, sounds like the Focus is still more than capable. Why not just spend a little bit on it and keep it?

I might consider another petrol engine, but i briefly owned a Peugeot 307 SW with a 2.0 HDI engine which was more economical than my 1.6 petrol Focus (it was quite a bit faster too!)... Unfortunately that car had to be returned to the dealer a week later as the ABS system failed and they didn't want to spend £800+ fixing it!

The Focus is ok, but it does go through fuel and it's not the most reliable (get the occasional engine stall for no reason - my mechanic can't find the fault either as it's intermittent). I was thinking about getting something slightly larger and a bit more comfortable, although i would consider a higher spec MK1/1.5 Focus (mine is the LX variant). Fuel economy, reliability and safety are big factors (especially safety as i have a 5 month old daughter). I was leaning towards the Volvo S40 as it's safe and seems to be one of Volvo's more reliable models (according to the reliabilty index, forums and word of mouth etc.).

[kalniel]

Another vote for going petrol here (he says, having only driven diesels in the UK). The problem especially with cars around that budget is that diesels will be quite old, yet not old enough to avoid needing a DPF most likely, so your list of things to go wrong include high pressure injectors, DPF and DMF etc. all of which were relatively 'new' technologies in that age of car, yet are now approaching end of life.

But you could go more basic/older - so something like the Astra G 1.7/2.2 dti are very reliable - lower pressure injectors, easy on cambelt, no DPF or DMF to worry about. But the car will be the same age as the one you're replacing. Pre-DPF VAG diesels are also solid - the 1.9 tdi (PD) based cars for example - highish pressure injectors but very solid, also no DPF if you get an old enough one. You've got a range of cars to chose from with that engine from SEAT (very cheap, quite stiff suspension, interior will be tatty at this age, but fairly solid mechanicals), Skoda, VW, to Audi.

I *think* the honda and BMW diesels are also pretty solid, but have no experience of them.

I would avoid Volvo (unreliable, costly servicing/parts/repair), Peugeot/Citroen (nice engine, but iffy electrics), Ford (early diesels just not reliable enough - injectors, DMF and DPF problems).

So it might also depend what kind of driving you do, not just raw mileage. If it's motorway miles/rural then get an old BMW and you'll be delighted. If it's more city stuff (with a fairly regular longish drive) then a SEAT Ibiza is often a bargain. If you've got a family a Skoda Octavia swallows luggage/bits, or an Astra estate. If you want a luxurious interior then a high mileage Audi A3 or A4 might be obtainable. VW I'd probably avoid simply because they're the 'go to' car for second hand buyers, so the prices are inflated a bit (to the point they can be more expensive than Audi second hand..) but there's lots available so you might be able to find just what you're looking for in a Passat or golf estate for eg.

[PetrolHead]

If you really want a diesel I would be looking at anything with the 1.9 PD engine from VW/Skoda/Seat/Audi very reliable engines, Seat/Skoda will get you a better example for your money.

However as others have said, petrol is better at your mileage.

[PowerPie5000]

Thanks for the replies guys

The Skoda Octavia or even a Fabia estate seem like viable options... I do a mix of both motorway and city/town driving, but probably more town driving (which i'm sure a diesel would still return better MPG than a petrol). Are the Seat Leon and Toledo models any good? I'm definitely going to avoid diesels with DPF's fitted as i hear nothing but bad things! Does anyone know roughly what year DPF's started being used? I don't mind getting an older car if it's a nice clean example (my Focus is not the best example for it's age, but i suppose it's not too bad either).

I was also looking at 1.7 Astra's... I'm guessing models around 03-04 will have a DPF (CDTI i think)? It doesn't really need to be a fast car as long as it can comfortably handle motorway speeds (i've even driven an 03 Suzuki Alto that easily managed 70mph with it's little 1.1 petrol engine ).

[kalniel]

Leon is OK, I wouldn't go for a Toledo however. Fabia estate would be a smart choice for our roads.

[Bagnaj97]

Thanks for the replies guys

The Skoda Octavia or even a Fabia estate seem like viable options...

Just watch out for clocked Octavias. The PD engines are nigh on indestructible so there are a lot of ex-taxi Octavias around with spaceship mileage on them, I expect more than a couple of these have been clocked. If reliability is the main concern then you could perhaps look at a 1.9 SDI. Gutless without the turbo, but 1 less thing to go wrong!

[Guy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but to me it does still sound like spending money to save MPG. £2,500 buys plenty of unleaded!
Yes a diesel will return more to the gallon, but I'd do some sums to see how long before it pays for itself, over an equivalent petrol model, given the lowish annual mileage.
To get the most out of a diesel you ideally want to be doing long enough journeys where the engine can get up to proper operating temperature, and avoiding stop start traffic, as this will hit the MPG massively.

From memory the PD engines are/were one of the most thermally efficient designs so took an absolute age to warm up. (I could be wrong on that!)
Otherwise as others have stated the VAG PD lumps are pretty solid and go on and on.

If boot space/looks aren't too much of an issue have a look for a VW Bora as people prefer'd the Golf to it (same platform) likewise a Passat.

[kalniel]

From memory the PD engines are/were one of the most thermally efficient designs so took an absolute age to warm up. (I could be wrong on that!)
Otherwise as others have stated the VAG PD lumps are pretty solid and go on and on.

They take a little while to warm up, but nothing like as long as the Astra/Izusu lump

[DanceswithUnix]

Another vote for petrol at that annual mileage.

Surprised no-one has mentioned the dreaded dual mass flywheel replacement cost.

At least stuff like the turbo isn't supposed to fail so that is just a risk you take, but I was quite shocked at how much a colleague was quoted to replace the clutch & flywheel on his diesel Focus. At the sort of age of car you are looking at here the clutch is a big question mark as they do wear out, and diesels quite commonly have dual mass systems. I think he was quoted £1500, shocked me anyway and I have an Alfa so I am used to overpriced parts

[abaxas]

Another vote for petrol at that annual mileage.

Surprised no-one has mentioned the dreaded dual mass flywheel replacement cost.

At least stuff like the turbo isn't supposed to fail so that is just a risk you take, but I was quite shocked at how much a colleague was quoted to replace the clutch & flywheel on his diesel Focus. At the sort of age of car you are looking at here the clutch is a big question mark as they do wear out, and diesels quite commonly have dual mass systems. I think he was quoted £1500, shocked me anyway and I have an Alfa so I am used to overpriced parts

It's not just diesel cars that have DMFs. Petrols too

[PowerPie5000]

Correct me if I'm wrong but to me it does still sound like spending money to save MPG. £2,500 buys plenty of unleaded!
Yes a diesel will return more to the gallon, but I'd do some sums to see how long before it pays for itself, over an equivalent petrol model, given the lowish annual mileage.
To get the most out of a diesel you ideally want to be doing long enough journeys where the engine can get up to proper operating temperature, and avoiding stop start traffic, as this will hit the MPG massively.

I just want another car as mine seems a bit temperamental when it comes to both the engine and the electrics... The fuel consumption is not great either for a small'ish 1.6 engine . Mine has developed rust patches in those familiar areas on early Focus models (along the bottom of rear passenger doors, underneath wing mirrors and starting to get rust in the rear wheel arches!). My Focus has a year left on the anti-corrosion warranty (which is 12 years for this model), but ford won't touch it because most of the service history is from independant garages and not a ford dealer with their overly inflated prices!

I've seen many cars the same age and older on the roads without any rust on them... I rtarely see any rusty cars these days (maybe the occassional ford). I fancy a change and thought a diesel would be a good idea, but it seems it could be costly and a real hassle if anything goes wrong (and it's usually expensive when a diesel breaks down). My auntie still has her old Pug 307 D-Turbo which has done nearly 170k without any major issues! Guess she must be lucky

[PowerPie5000]

It's not just diesel cars that have DMFs. Petrols too

Would my 2001 (Y reg) Ford Focus have a DMF? It's got a 1.6, 16V Zetec-SE engine (The Yamaha/Ford Sigma i believe).