BMW 5 Series E61 or F11

[Raz316]

Hi all,

have any of you driven or own a BMW 5 series touring, either the E61 or F11? What are your thoughts in general? I think I am interested in getting one, probably a diesel version.

I've had a couple of smaller 3 series before (1.6 2 door E30 and a 2.0 2 door E46) and while both felt quite under powered, I still really enjoyed owning them, especially the E46.

Also are manual BMW's non existent now? I went to a couple of dealers recently and asked "Have you got any manual cars?" the first said "I get that a lot, sorry no we don't" the second looked at me like some sort of moron and said "pffft, no".

As always, thanks in advance and a happy new year to you all

-Chris

[DanceswithUnix]

I wonder if it goes with the rise of Diesels that manual boxes seem to be less popular.

My little 1.9 150bhp diesel is about as far as I would want to go on a manual box, beyond that and for me it just becomes hooligan to the point that it is just hard work for no fun, and auto seems a better choice. Another reason I suspect my next car will be back to petrol, because I don't really want an auto.

[herulach]

I suspect it's partly down to the rise in company car buyers as well. On the brand new 3 the auto is apparently more efficient, at least on the standard tests. And is the only option once you get over the 320 iirc.

Slightly different market but my w205 c class is in the dealers at present for a leak fixing. The service manager reckons it's the only manual c he's had in in about 18 months

[MrRockliffe]

I think you're correct there. I remember being asked to find a manual M3 for a friend of my dads - took ages to find one in good condition, low mileage and a metallic grey colour, since most use a form of automatic for gear changing; not something you want in a car that's designed to be driver, rather than being ridden in, so to speak.


EDIT: If you're set on BMWs, then that's fine, but if you're still considering different cars, I can recommend looking at other manufacturers. I've personally found BMW to lose their finesse over the past 10 years. The interiors feel like they're straight out of Skodas (plastic and cheap feeling - that was in a 2011 M3) and ride comfort is surpassed by Audi and Mercedes equivalents. With most of my family and friends having owned BMWs, I've never felt that they're worth their money.

I remember watching a programme about how they're manufactured (a few years ago now), and they used to coat their pedals with something like 4 layers of paint, so that it's exactly the right colour. I can't imagine them doing something like this now.

Not to mention their entertainment system (iDrive, I think it's called?) - it's one of the worst I've used. Cluttered, counter intuitive (the selection wheel works backwards to how you'd imagine it to, and I never got used to it).

Then again, they're still one of the German manufacturers, and picking up a BM with 40K miles should let you do another 100K without too many, if any, problems. I know quite a few people that only buy second hand BMs to save money, and get a good 80K miles out of them before upgrading.

Mechanically, these are very sound cars, and you'd have no trouble loving it. I've never been in or ridden in an Estate BM, so I can't comment about them specifically, was just trying to add a little to the company in general

[herulach]

I think you're correct there. I remember being asked to find a manual M3 for a friend of my dads - took ages to find one in good condition, low mileage and a metallic grey colour, since most use a form of automatic for gear changing; not something you want in a car that's designed to be driver, rather than being ridden in, so to speak.

Pretty certain the new m3 is auto only isn't it? Presumably designing a clutch to last more than about 10 miles is less difficult if a machine is operating it.

[MrRockliffe]

It is indeed. That's what made it hard, since there aren't many used M3s with his requirements, since lots of people want the manual version.

I think he ended up going for an 09 ish car.

[Guy]

Pretty certain the new m3 is auto only isn't it? Presumably designing a clutch to last more than about 10 miles is less difficult if a machine is operating it.

It is indeed.

Nope! Still got the option of buying one in manual form.

You shouldn't be coming across as many issues if you were hunting for a manual 1-3 series (even a diesel) but once you start getting into 5 series+ you're in 'exec' territory where the majority if not all buyers would demand an auto.
The 8 speed ZF box is fantastic, and given the choice of that or the manual equivalent I'd know where my money would be going.

[Spud1]

There are plenty of BMWs with a manual box - just seem to be rare on diesels, which kind of makes sense. Boring engines go with boring boxes You can definitely buy an M3 with a manual too..I can't imagine why you'd want an M3 and then stick in an auto box!

On a 5 series though I would expect you will find 99% diesel and automatic, due to the main demographic being business or older people who do enough miles to justify a diesel and are not buying for fun.

I've not driven the F11 however I can say with confidence that owning an F20 and having driven an F30 (and their corresponding EXX series) the FXX series is a huge leap forward - I would not consider any EXX series BM these days. I know standard trim level is less important second hand, but the quality of the finish and level of standard kit is vastly improved on the FXX series, in addition to generally better engines (in terms of efficiency at least). Really solid cars, and amazing deals on a lease if you considered buying new

[abaxas]

Good cars but you'll be judged as blue collar if you buy one.

Nothing says 'I haven't made it but I want to look like I have' like a BMW.

[Raz316]

Thanks all for the responses

Happy to see there hasn't been a complete rejection of either cars, but it seems an F11 is a better bet. If I am honest, the newer the better really, not at all because of design, more for peace of mind.

MrRockLife : Yup, very much set on a BMW, I've got no logical explanation other than the fact it feels right for me and I enjoyed owning a pretty basic 3 series in the past.

Guy: The exec territory thing makes a lot of sense, it's a shame, but it does make sense. Maybe it will be one of those things where after having an automatic car for a while (I've driven them, but never owned) I will wonder how on earth I preferred manual. Having an auto probably makes sense for how I drive though, it's not so much racing lines and good gear changes with me, more just enjoying spending some alone time cruising about in a car that feels nice to drive.

[Zak33]

never EVER buy a 5 series or larger with a clutch pedal!

[Raz316]

Care to elaborate?

[Guy]

never EVER buy a 5 series or larger with a clutch pedal!

Always an exception to the rule!



The autobox of that era would have ruined the whole dynamics of the car.

Later generations I'd agree though.

[jon bda]

Not had a play in any myself, but my boss recently bought in a customers 330d F** with the paddle shift box and was loving it...and he normally hates Beemers with a passion!!!

[Zak33]

Always an exception to the rule!



The autobox of that era would have ruined the whole dynamics of the car.

Later generations I'd agree though.

the OLDEST 5 series maybe.... but by that time auto was great for power slides. I'd not buy a large car with 3 pedals..

[Zak33]

THIS ONE should be Manual