VW in US about to be slapped with mammoth emissions fine

[Zak33]

Audi have had no choice but to admit the 2.1 MILLION cars' it's also sold .....

[directhex]

I thought it was a given that Audi were doing it too? It's the same company, and the EPA complaint cites the A3 as guilty

[kalniel]

Some Audi owners are probably in denial that they're driving golfs

[DanceswithUnix]

Some Audi owners are probably in denial that they're driving golfs

Some get quite wobbly if you say they are driving a Skoda

[kalniel]

Some get quite wobbly if you say they are driving a Skoda

I'd rather a skoda than a golf

[shaithis]

I thought it was a given that Audi were doing it too? It's the same company, and the EPA complaint cites the A3 as guilty

I believe it's either the A3 or A4 that has been documented as being the worst offender found.

[Mister]

Some get quite wobbly if you say they are driving a Skoda

Or a Seat

They all share the same engines and chassis.

[Knoxville]

Apparently for a long time we've had an issue where the regulators are saying "weird, we keep making our emissions regs tighter, and the new cars are all passing... why aren't the atmospheric measurements dropping to match?"

Guess we have our answer. And VW is big/influential enough that nobody was looking for an answer to the above too closely.

See now I would have said that the change would be slow anyway and that there were still alot of old oil burners out there slowing the process down prior to this. You might be on to something there though. It does make you wonder if/how many other manufacturers are pulling the wool over the eyes of the authorities too.

As my last 3 cars were VAG group cars, I'll say this:
They have been anything but squeaky clean for at least 10 years or more now.
"If everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen" then most things would not work!
They've had numerous problems that causes a recall in the States but the rest of the world is told to sod off. Probably something to do with the existence of class action lawsuits in the states methinks.
Examples: DSG gearboxes, faulty injectors.

They make some models with absolutely shocking reliability and wash their hands of them. Like the mid noughties passat and its famous electronic parking brake that likes to just let go some time after you're parked. Their multitronic gearboxes are more a when rather than an if they break in the first 100,000 miles.

Their reliability is average. Nothing more.

Why do I keep buying them? I take this into account. If I wanted a very reliable car it would also be very boring, very bad on fuel or not available with an automatic gearbox.
I just do a lot of research before buying.

The above also applies to BMW and Mercedes as well.

It's funny you metion that slogan because it's one that sticks in my mind for VW, probably because of ads like this one -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF-KJ5-KNQk

Perhaps I'm a little behind the times on their recent reputation. I'd heard of the DSG gearboxes being wobbly for instance but beyond that the VW name was still one that tied to words like reliability and quality for me.

Speaking of word association... How big of a blow is this to the TDi badge? I know it's a almost a generic term but along with GTi it's still something I associate directly with Volkswagen.

[Butcher]

Or a Seat

They all share the same engines and chassis.

And are therefore clearly exactly the same, just a new coat of paint and swap the badges.

That said, the golf and A3 are very similar indeed (the Seats a bit less so as they seem to use a different set of engines).

[Saracen]

Apparently for a long time we've had an issue where the regulators are saying "weird, we keep making our emissions regs tighter, and the new cars are all passing... why aren't the atmospheric measurements dropping to match?"

Guess we have our answer. And VW is big/influential enough that nobody was looking for an answer to the above too closely.

The problem is that, in part, that would be explained by a disparity between lab test conditions designed to be reproducable in a variety of cars , makes, etc, to produce an industry-wide testing regime and a degree of comparability on the one hand, and utterly variable real-world conditions on the other. For instance, on MPG, I can get anything from about 15mpg if I drive like a nutter on local roads, to 40pmg+, if I drive carefully on a long run.

If emissions tests are to be useful, you ought to be able to run the same test 10 times, and within a small and defined margin of error, get the same result. But two different drivers driving the same car on a defined route will produce different results, as will a single driver doing it at two different times of day, like 7am rush hour and 3am empty-roads.

It's a bit like APR on loans. It's a very misunderstood figure that is of use, but doesn't necessarily tell you much about the actual cost of a given loan.

That said, never mind emissions fixing, I'm waiting for a scandal over MPG claims and tests next.

[directhex]

The problem is that, in part, that would be explained by a disparity between lab test conditions designed to be reproducable in a variety of cars , makes, etc, to produce an industry-wide testing regime and a degree of comparability on the one hand, and utterly variable real-world conditions on the other. For instance, on MPG, I can get anything from about 15mpg if I drive like a nutter on local roads, to 40pmg+, if I drive carefully on a long run.

If emissions tests are to be useful, you ought to be able to run the same test 10 times, and within a small and defined margin of error, get the same result. But two different drivers driving the same car on a defined route will produce different results, as will a single driver doing it at two different times of day, like 7am rush hour and 3am empty-roads.

It's a bit like APR on loans. It's a very misunderstood figure that is of use, but doesn't necessarily tell you much about the actual cost of a given loan.

That said, never mind emissions fixing, I'm waiting for a scandal over MPG claims and tests next.

Well, as it happens, this is both - VAG's engines can't do the promised emissions and MPG at the same time. If they fix the engines to stop poisoning people, everyone who's had the recall done loses 5-10 MPG.

[kalniel]

Well, as it happens, this is both - VAG's engines can't do the promised emissions and MPG at the same time. If they fix the engines to stop poisoning people, everyone who's had the recall done loses 5-10 MPG.

And subsequently increases CO2. Tricky one. I'd personally take CO2 over NOx, but there is a long term concern of course.

Clean/replace the injectors to compensate? Most of these cars are not new, so could assume to have some kind of crud build up which cleaning might help with - wouldn't restore to factory fresh spec, but might maintain current mpg with your richer fuel mix (and hey, more performance too).

[directhex]

And subsequently increases CO2. Tricky one. I'd personally take CO2 over NOx, but there is a long term concern of course.

Definitely a tricky one - but I think all in all CO2 is less bad in the immediate short term than NOx, especially for a diesel engine. The big issue with NOx is it keeps particulates around at breathing-height, so we know for a fact that it's helping to contribute to serious localized health issues, rather than the more circumspect issue of climate change which CO2 causes

[kalniel]

Definitely a tricky one - but I think all in all CO2 is less bad in the immediate short term than NOx, especially for a diesel engine. The big issue with NOx is it keeps particulates around at breathing-height, so we know for a fact that it's helping to contribute to serious localized health issues, rather than the more circumspect issue of climate change which CO2 causes

Yeah, try telling my local councillors that - they're dead keen on installing speed bumps (which have been shown to increase NOx due to the slowing down/speeding up) locally, without even waiting for the on-going DfT study into whether they actually have any benefit or not.

[kalniel]

Hold up.. might be about to get even more interesting

Volkswagen has withdrawn application for environmental certification in the United States for several of its 2016 diesel models (including Jettas, Golfs, Passats and Beetles).

The head of VW in the US, Martin Horn, said the vehicles contained a software feature that should have been disclosed to regulators.

A VW spokeswoman said the feature was different to the emissions test rigging software that has engulfed the company in scandal.

2016 are the new models.. and this is something different to the previous software. Possibly harmless something that should just have been notified.. possibly more shenanigans..

[directhex]

Hold up.. might be about to get even more interesting



2016 are the new models.. and this is something different to the previous software. Possibly harmless something that should just have been notified.. possibly more shenanigans..

They're also blaming "two rogue engineers" - http://www.theguardian.com/business/...s-live-updates

If nobody else here has ever worked in automotive, that is sixty levels of bull****.