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Thread: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    One of the VW boys has already copped a plea of guilty and is being charged in May
    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit News
    James Liang, leader of diesel competence for VW from 2008 through June, pleaded guilty to a criminal charge in Detroit in September and is expected to be sentenced May 3.
    Oliver Schmidt is still tagged and having to stay home with GPS tracking.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...tive/99248826/

    meanwhile the European VW boys and girls are selling more than ever.

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    Vive le pants! directhex's Avatar
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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    One of the VW boys has already copped a plea of guilty and is being charged in May


    Oliver Schmidt is still tagged and having to stay home with GPS tracking.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...tive/99248826/

    meanwhile the European VW boys and girls are selling more than ever.
    As long as VW is a major part of the German economy, the EU won't touch them over just killing a few thousand people for profit.

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    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Must prevent clean, efficient diesels from being a success in the US, our corporate overlords demand it.

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    You'd think the corn lobby would love diesels, biodiesel is easier than biopetrol

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    Militant Battle Moose! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Nothing about trying to screw over a competitor to US companies.


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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    As long as VW is a major part of the German economy, the EU won't touch them over just killing a few thousand people for profit.
    Oh, that's cynical.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Quite right, of course, but still cynical.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


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    Vive le pants! directhex's Avatar
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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    clean, efficient diesels
    Wake me when those start existing outside an NEDC test bed.

    https://events.ccc.de/congress/2015/...NAL_slides.pdf

    Slides 54 and 61-64 are the most interesting.

    It's basically *impossible* for a VW diesel to achieve claimed/legal cleanliness/efficiency outside an NEDC test bed
    Last edited by directhex; 17-03-2017 at 10:27 AM.

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Impossible's a little strong - with an ECU flash to remove the pointless limits on the pee dosing conditions you should see a massive difference in nitrous oxide emissions. If the limits are set in read only memory the it'd need a new ECU module, but that's well within the capability of a recall

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Nothing about trying to screw over a competitor to US companies.
    Are there any US companies still competing? I thought Detroit housed the best of them, before it became a run-down wasteland worthy of a Stanley Kubrick film about Vietnam.... or is that just what residents are saying?

    TBH, VW have copped it twice over these scandals (emissions and remote locks), but plenty of other non-VAG manufacturers doing the exact same things have somehow escaped the stake-burning...

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    Vive le pants! directhex's Avatar
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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    Impossible's a little strong - with an ECU flash to remove the pointless limits on the pee dosing conditions you should see a massive difference in nitrous oxide emissions. If the limits are set in read only memory the it'd need a new ECU module, but that's well within the capability of a recall
    Too much pee is worse for human respiration than no pee. So it's not a question of just throwing in more pee

    Fixing it via a recall is viable - but they need to alter the engine burn temps for the pee to be effective & get it under legal minimums, and doing so lowers the MPG, which most buyers don't accept.

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    AIUI, the point of the distance-time graphs on pages 61-64 is that the cars do not dose any pee, whether or not it is needed (unless you are following the test procedure exactly). So reflash the ECU to have sensible pee dosing requirements, and the situation will be much improved without pissing ammonia down the exhaust pipe. MPG of diesel shouldn't be affected, as you're only changing inputs downstream of the engine, and of course MPG of pee will go down to where it should be

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Are there any US companies still competing? I thought Detroit housed the best of them, before it became a run-down wasteland worthy of a Stanley Kubrick film about Vietnam.... or is that just what residents are saying?

    TBH, VW have copped it twice over these scandals (emissions and remote locks), but plenty of other non-VAG manufacturers doing the exact same things have somehow escaped the stake-burning...
    Ford and GM are still trying to compete, sure, their cars are made in Mexico, but the wall will fix that. There is, however, something very sad about an efficient four cylinder Mustang...

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    As long as VW is a major part of the German economy, the EU won't touch them over just killing a few thousand people for profit.
    Last estimate I saw was appx 40 deaths. Not thousands.
    However, there is no such thing as clean diesel. They are noisy stinky rattly engines that just sound like a proper engine that's broken.
    I just saw the emissions report from my 10 year old petrol car with an engine first sold in 2004 and was surprised about how little crap it pumps into the atmosphere, despite having done 130,000 miles.
    However, the best way to reduce localised pollution is to use electric cars. They use less energy for the same number of miles and pump not crap into the atmosphere of where they are used.
    Hopefully HCCI engines will be available this decade and that will sound the death knell for diesel passenger cars.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    Ford and GM are still trying to compete, sure, their cars are made in Mexico, but the wall will fix that. There is, however, something very sad about an efficient four cylinder Mustang...
    Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that Ford is a US company... probably because I only ever see the cheaper piles of junk they make, which frequently break and cost the customers loads of money when we have to fix them....

    I'd absolutely LOVE something like a 3rd Gen Dodge Charger, though. Anything that sounds like that!!
    One customer brought us his '68 Mustang GT/CS, once... not as nice-sounding as the Dodge and he picked the awful mustard colour, but still respectfully impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    However, the best way to reduce localised pollution is to use electric cars.
    Yeah yeah yeah, I keep hearing this... What they forget is that most of us cannot afford to drop £13,000 on a brand new car, that we do far more miles than these things can manage on even two charges, and that we don't have anywhere to plug them in.

    In fact, I haven't seen a single council plan for EV charging in terraced street areas... Most residents would need about 600m of charging cable. That's assuming I don't get 8 hours car charging time added to my daily work hours and that I get home early enough to actually find a parking space within 3 streets of my house...

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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    ....

    Yeah yeah yeah, I keep hearing this... What they forget is that most of us cannot afford to drop £13,000 on a brand new car, that we do far more miles than these things can manage on even two charges, and that we don't have anywhere to plug them in.

    In fact, I haven't seen a single council plan for EV charging in terraced street areas... Most residents would need about 600m of charging cable. That's assuming I don't get 8 hours car charging time added to my daily work hours and that I get home early enough to actually find a parking space within 3 streets of my house...
    Well, there's a very vibrant market among those that can crop £13,000, or more, on a brand new car, given that a very large proportion of brand new cars cost more than that anyway. Mostly, I'd bet, those that cannot afford £13k will go for a second (or more) hand car that would have cost the first owner £13k or more.

    And the penetration of 2nd hand electrics has to start with those buying new, to start filtering into the chain.

    However, even among those that can afford £13k, or even £31k, there are issues around practicality of electrics, which for me centre on much the issues you raise, I.e. range between refills/recharge, frequency and availability of charging points, and especially, time it takes to charge, and the cost which can be VERY high for some high speed chargers.

    Wyen I csn get 350/400 per charge, or can recharge invthe same 5 mins it takes me to pump a tank of petrol, I'll be interested. What is not acceptable (to me) is having to spend 30 minutes having coffee in a motorway service station every couple of hundred miles just to recharge, and then paying premium rates for a fast charge.

    It's about my usage pattern, and practicality. When electrics meet that, l'll consider it. And the sooner the better, because I REALLY like the idea. But only when it's practical.

    Oh, and the potential for HUGE battery replacement cost needs to be sorted, too.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


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    Re: The American Goverment are tightening the charges on the VW boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Well, there's a very vibrant market among those that can crop £13,000, or more, on a brand new car, given that a very large proportion of brand new cars cost more than that anyway.
    There's a vibrant market for those who can afford twin or even quad Titan X GPUs, too... doesn't mean we should now ban lesser cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Mostly, I'd bet, those that cannot afford £13k will go for a second (or more) hand car that would have cost the first owner £13k or more.
    We are - Diesels!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And the penetration of 2nd hand electrics has to start with those buying new, to start filtering into the chain.
    They have to be viable replacements, though, which is where things are going so badly.
    A current model EV will be such a drain just in getting it on the road each morning, that I'd never manage to make it work, no matter how cheap it is 2nd hand.

    I'd much rather we went Thorium, but as with many other alternatives, no-one makes anywhere near as much money on that as they do now...

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