Tesla Model 3 event

[Dashers]

My Zoe has a noisemaker, it sounds like a Zombie. Pull the right fuse and it's no longer an issue. Mine is off always, and I can tell you so far I have not run, or almost run anybody over.

You get some comments about "wow, that's creepy" when you crawl off, but you have to be going very slowly to be making next-to-no noise. Even with no engine noise, there is an awful lot of other stuff wirring around, cooling and heating stuff. Noisy transformers etc.

I have had plenty of pedestrians oblivious to my petrol car with its noisy sports exhaust pootling behind them . As in reality, petrol engines don't make an awful lot of noise either when crawling.

The noisemaker in the Zoe turns off at 18mph, because it's redundant. Most the external noise from cars aren't engines, it's tyres. Just go into the country a bit and listen out for traffic, aside from obnoxious motorcyclists, the noises you hear is the thrum of rubber on tarmac.

[DanceswithUnix]

It is utterly silent, yes?

About as silent as an electric car, so quieter than a mains or petrol powered mower but hardly ninja stealthy

[Ttaskmaster]

£0 upfront. I literally pay £175/m with no up-front cash on a PCP deal.

I'm not interested in renting something, or entering a debt that might see me come undone if something goes badly.

Where parts can be shared they will be shared, it's cheaper for the manufacturer and as a result if you think the dealer is having a laugh, you can just go buy the same part from another car. This doesn't actually happen though.

A LOT of dealers having a LOT of laughts out there.
A LOT of OEMs having a LOT of laughs, too.
Seeing how much money people pay for these parts, I think I know why they're laughing...

it doesn't matter if you walk into a Skoda or Audi garage, you pay the same price for common parts.

Invoices say otherwise...

Yes, there is likely to be an increase in premium on EV-specific things whilst the economies of scales aren't there,

And what makes you think they'll go down once the scales are there?

as noted numerous times in this thread, electric motors are far simpler, are easier to manufacture and have much less that can go wrong.

So how are they going to make their money once everyone has bought one of these amaaaayzing reliable cars?

If you don't want to pay a premium on the parts bin, don't buy a Merc, but the same applies to a petrol car.

I didn't.

[Ttaskmaster]

My Zoe has a noisemaker, it sounds like a Zombie. Pull the right fuse and it's no longer an issue. Mine is off always, and I can tell you so far I have not run, or almost run anybody over.

Definitive proof, then. I stand utterly corrected.
Guess those guide dogs were all just deaf...

The noisemaker in the Zoe turns off at 18mph, because it's redundant. Most the external noise from cars aren't engines, it's tyres.

Ah, so that's what the rising Vrooooom noise is I keep hearing over my stereo as it moves out of my blind spot.... Silly me, thought it was their engine...
So how do they make tyre noise so bassy? Is it a design feature, then?

Just go into the country a bit and listen out for traffic, aside from obnoxious motorcyclists, the noises you hear is the thrum of rubber on tarmac.

Motorcyclists?
How can you hear them? They only have half the tyre numbers, so surely are half-again as silent... ?

About as silent as an electric car, so quieter than a mains or petrol powered mower but hardly ninja stealthy

I guess that means everything else around is quiet and you'll be fine then.

[Noxvayl]

Definitive proof, then. I stand utterly corrected.
Guess those guide dogs were all just deaf...


Ah, so that's what the rising Vrooooom noise is I keep hearing over my stereo as it moves out of my blind spot.... Silly me, thought it was their engine...
So how do they make tyre noise so bassy? Is it a design feature, then?


Motorcyclists?
How can you hear them? They only have half the tyre numbers, so surely are half-again as silent... ?


I guess that means everything else around is quiet and you'll be fine then.

Some people drive with music on... not everyone is like you and drives with no roof and no music so they can "hear" other vehicles around them. You are exceptionally good at projecting yourself onto everyone else in the world. As a result you come across as a zealot.

[Dashers]

Hah, I'm not responding to those comments - you know what they say about arguing against those kind of statements: don't.

I think enough owners on here have corrected any misunderstandings you have but it's clear that you're not interested in leccy. Although I'm not sure why you're so fervently posting instead of just a "I'm not interested in leccy motoring".

[Ttaskmaster]

Some people drive with music on... not everyone is like you and drives with no roof and no music so they can "hear" other vehicles around them.

And not everyone properly reads the comments to which they respond...

You are exceptionally good at projecting yourself onto everyone else in the world. As a result you come across as a zealot.

Coming from you, that's quite hypocritical - Wasn't it you who told me I HAD to drive an EV and that I WOULD love it once I did so?
As for the rest, I'm challenging the arguments presented.
I obviously have a personal stake in this, as I may one day be forced toward getting an EV or walking everywhere and my ethos has always been about having options. I generally live my life finding out how to go about getting exactly what I want and do not just make do with whatever everyone else uses. Why should this be any different?

I think enough owners on here have corrected any misunderstandings you have

But no, they haven't. In spite of mentioning problems that their fellow users and those around them have experienced, owners here have simply said, "Well I haven't had any problems yet, so I guess everything is rosy".
Moreover, they have laid out why they think it will be a good thing, or rather listed what they like about what they've been told it will be... but until it actually is a reality, that I can have in my hand and decide for myself, it is just a guess.

Given the whole lies about diesel being better, then worse, then better, then worse than petrol engines and the arguments that spawned this EV interest in the first place, I remain skeptical.
I have zero faith in humanity and zero faith in the profit-making corporations that are the deciding factors in this and most other matters, so fully expect this tree-hugging hippy concept of ultra green free energy low-cost featureless transport utopia to come crashing down in a marketing, software-ransom and shareholder investment wet-dream of captive corporate domination.

Hopefully it'll be some kind of middleground, like it generally is, but either way I still think it's much further off than people would have me believe and won't be the absolute dream it's marketed as.

but it's clear that you're not interested in leccy. Although I'm not sure why you're so fervently posting instead of just a "I'm not interested in leccy motoring".

I thought I was having a discussion around the various issues and challenging general opinions on the matter.

But whatever you'd rather...

I have no interest in electric vehicles.
Goodbye.

[Noxvayl]

Unlike you, Ttaskmaster, I have a more refined approach to discussion as well as a more healthy opinion on the world; you are a binary being where as I see everything as a spectrum... hence your views are displayed through your writing as the word of god rather than an opinion that is likely to be false.

You are smart, I'll give you that... but your communication skills are severely lacking.

[Saracen]

Unlike you, Ttaskmaster, I have a more refined approach to discussion as well as a more healthy opinion on the world; you are a binary being where as I see everything as a spectrum... hence your views are displayed through your writing as the word of god rather than an opinion that is likely to be false.

You are smart, I'll give you that... but your communication skills are severely lacking.

Enough of that.

This has been an interesting discussion so far, but if it descends to attacking posters rather than arguing the point, those doing so aren't going to like my reaction.

It'll be thread-locked, cleaned and then continue with those doing so benefiting from a forced absence, courtesy of moi. That includes, by the way, responding to that post in like manner.

Warning duly issued. PLEASE, heed it, everybody.

[Ttaskmaster]

Edited

[Saracen]

Such narrow thinking...

By "simulate engine noise" , I was getting at the effect of engine noise, even though the effect is a side-effect of engines rather rather an objective, as it would be with a noise-maker on an EV.

That was in the context of points about time-limits on horns, which to my mind, are different entirely to a noisemaker designed to mitigate the stealthy approach of EVs. It wasn't about whether the noisemaker goes Vroom, vroom, makes a pleasantish-ish humming noise, or plays Land of Hope and Glory, or Verdi's trumpet solo from Aida. It was about a bit of noise so people hear them coming.

So perhaos "simulate engine noise" was badly phrased. I should have said "some audiologically varied method of simulating the noise levels of an approaching conventionally-powered vehicle with internal combustion engine". Though, that still leaves a considerable variation in dB levels between, say, a Rolls Royce purring along and a full-throttled V12 roar from Lamborghini. Maybe I need a dB range, too.

Also, I wasn't commenting on whether EVs should have noises. Personally, if an idiot or two are so engrossed in their smartphone that they don't bother to look before stepping into a road .... lesson in evolution at work?

[TheAnimus]

Such narrow thinking...

Erm, I cycle faster than 20mph on my commute and I hear cars revving when they are trying to overtake me (many forget how to change down a gear), stopping at 18mph for the sound generation isn't going to be good.

[Ttaskmaster]

It wasn't about whether the noisemaker goes Vroom, vroom, makes a pleasantish-ish humming noise, or plays Land of Hope and Glory, or Verdi's trumpet solo from Aida.

I'mma get a system fitted that does ALL of these!!!!!!!!!

Also, I wasn't commenting on whether EVs should have noises. Personally, if an idiot or two are so engrossed in their smartphone that they don't bother to look before stepping into a road .... lesson in evolution at work?

But even normal, non-idiotic humans make use of all their senses when assessing a situation for danger.

Example 1 being my blind corner where people come hooning round the bend at more than double the posted speed limit. There's also a 20mph school zone about 250yds after the corner, would you believe...

Example 2 being those perfectly non-idiotic people who are blind and even whose guide dogs have been unable to hear approaching vehicles in time.

Erm, I cycle faster than 20mph on my commute and I hear cars revving when they are trying to overtake me (many forget how to change down a gear), stopping at 18mph for the sound generation isn't going to be good.

And there's example 3...

[Saracen]

....

Example 2 being those perfectly non-idiotic people who are blind and even whose guide dogs have been unable to hear approaching vehicles in time.
...

Well, someone needs to take that guide dog's smartphone off him, and not give it back until he's off-duty. I dunno, you just can't get the dogs these days.


For the record, my Darwinesque-Award elimination strategy applies to those with sufficiently deficient IQ they they walk about in a stupor due to smartphones, not those with genuine limitations, like limited vision. The "idiot" category can eliminate the problem by hauling their beak out of their damn phone from time to time when convenient, or when, you know .... their life maybe depends on at least minimal situational awareness.

[Noxvayl]

Also, I wasn't commenting on whether EVs should have noises. Personally, if an idiot or two are so engrossed in their smartphone that they don't bother to look before stepping into a road .... lesson in evolution at work?

Well, someone needs to take that guide dog's smartphone off him, and not give it back until he's off-duty. I dunno, you just can't get the dogs these days.


For the record, my Darwinesque-Award elimination strategy applies to those with sufficiently deficient IQ they they walk about in a stupor due to smartphones, not those with genuine limitations, like limited vision. The "idiot" category can eliminate the problem by hauling their beak out of their damn phone from time to time when convenient, or when, you know .... their life maybe depends on at least minimal situational awareness.

I think European society has gone too far down the "no-one is allowed to die" path that us normal people have to put up with such nonsense just to keep idiots from walking into an open manhole cover. It could be my South African roots but this bullrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish about everyone not dying sounds more like the government being vengeful over lost revenue than actual concern for human life.

It seems to manifest in these idiotic laws like the EVs have to make noise... a Rolls Royce makes less noise than an EV, if not the same amount if it's weight contributes more to tyre noise.

[DanceswithUnix]

Example 1 being my blind corner where people come hooning round the bend at more than double the posted speed limit. There's also a 20mph school zone about 250yds after the corner, would you believe...

If people are ignoring existing laws, adding new laws for them to ignore doesn't seem productive.