Best cooling option for Silverstone TJ08E

[martian_aphid]

Hi,

New to the forums but got a query I wondered if you guys could chime in on.

I'm going IB in the next couple of weeks and it's going to be a complete new build but I am a bit space limited and thus I'm opting for the mATX route. I've spent a fair bit of time looking at cases and whilst I really liked the look of the Lian Li PC-V600F, there are a few things, in addition to the price, which are steering me away from it. As such I am moving more towards the Silverstone Tejmin TJ08-E, which, whilst not as attractive as the LL imo, has a nice layout, a small footprint and a more reasonable price.

I am used to full tower cases and big HSFs so my main concern with this SFF build is how to cool it. The TJ08 has a nice 180mm front intake fan but for CPU cooling I'm torn between an air cooling solution (I've got 165mm to work with so any suggestions within this would be great) or trying out one of the closed loop watercoolers like the Corsair H60/Antec Kuhler?

So your insight would be great - do I go HSF or dip my toe into WCing with this case?

TIA

[ghost_florian]

I guess it depends on you budget too. 165mm will be enough for a Arctic Cooling "Freezer 13 Pro" or "i30". Both are very good coolers, and look nice too. The Freezer 13 Pro is £24, while the i30 is £29. Compare that with the £45 620 and £52 H60.
The i30 actually outperforms the H50 and the 620 by a pretty significant margin ( source: http://www.kitguru.net/components/co...-i30-review/5/ ).
And looking at the specifications from the website (Dimensions (Product 100 (L) x 139 (W) x 161 (H) mm)), it will fit the 165mm you have.
It also has included MX4 thermal paste, which is one of the best on the market.

[doyll49]

Maybe I'm crazy but IMHO computer case / CPU / GPU cooling design is flawed. There is no seperation of hot exhausted air and cool intake air on CPU / GPU (newer GPU design does some) heatsinks.

h2o radiators usually mount against case vents exhausting hot air out of case.

In systems I've built CPU exhaust are ducted from HSF to case vent (use push/pull HSF ducted to case vent so exhaust HSF is also case vent exhaust fan). GPU varies epending on GPU. Wife has HD4890 exhaust duct. Mine has HD 6750 so not much heat generated.

Works great. HHDs MB heatsinks, memory, etc raise case temp a little... about 3c higher internal then ambient.

TJ08-E with push/pull HSF could easily be ducted out back.

[ghost_florian]

Martian was just asking what type of cooler (and some recommendations) he could use. And I don't think it's flawed at all if you orient you heatsinks and fans properly.Hot air rises, while cold air drops. With the TJ08, you have that big Penetrator (that's what she said ) that blows air in the case. The Cooler should be oriented to intake the cold air from that fan(which would rest at the bottom), and blow it out the back, where you should have another exhaust fan.
Now for the graphics card, you should ideally have sth that blows air out of the case. It might get a little hot, but nothing special...

[martian_aphid]

Hi guys, though I'm primarily looking for some cooler suggestions I don't mind the discussion about cooling in general

I agree with the idea of trying to take cool air in and then exhaust it out, its the main reason my current case has a nice open front to take in cool air and exhausts at the back to suck away the hot air from the HSF. The GPU should take relatively cool air from the bottom of my case and exhaust it straight out. My current temps are not bad considering the hardware: ~30c on a Q6600 at idle, GPU is fairly warm but that is the bain of the 4870 as the side fan on my case also provides plenty of cool air straight onto the whole mobo area.

As ghost_florian says quite well the PENETRATOR! should do a decent job of pulling in cool air (the reviews seem to affirm this) how I deal with it towards the back of the case it a bit more of an issue and one compounded by the constraints of the case dimensions. In addition the flipped orientation of the mobo is not something I am familiar with and therefore not sure what effect if will have with CPU to GPU temps.

After making my post I actually got hold of a copy of the manual for this case and had a read through - it seems there are more considerations than just the 165mm height clearance. The other recommendations state no more than 18mm past the top edge of the motherboard, and more importantly no further back from the back of the case than 186mm so as not to interfere with the drive cage. The latter seems to be the main issue as if the HSF does not have a centrally located fan then there literally is no option but to put the fan on the CPU cooler at the back of the case - I would imagine orientated so it pulls air through the cooler and out the back of the case. That means my cooler has to have the flexibility to put the fan at either side and with the fan orientated as either intake or exhaust. A centrally located fan might therefore be a better option with an additional exhaust fan located at the rear?

[ghost_florian]

Ok, so check this out:



You can mount a Noctua NH-D14 inside it, which is a monster cooler. Check out the dimensions on that, and anything which is less than that (most coolers on the market ) will fit.

I still recommend the Arctic Cooling i30, but it depends on your budget. Water cooling systems below the H70 don't perform that great to be honest, and they are bloody expensive. For the same money, you can get air coolers which do a much better job, and are equally silent, if not more so...
I personally have a Coolermaster Hyper 212+ which is dead silent and keeps my CPU very cool. They have the 212 evo now, which is even better.

Let us know what your budget is, and we can tell you the best performance you can get for that money.

[doyll49]

Good pic GF. Remember at cooler 140mm x 140mm needs minimum of 40mm clearance to draw air... not sure how much area will be be left with HDDs installed. 140mm exhaust fan toward a 120mm vent means not all fan forced air goes out 120mm vent and hot air will be re-circulated inside of case. In the TJ08E I would build a duct from back of HSF to back vent hole so all HSF air goes directly out of case. Yes hot air rises and cold air drop, but when you start using fans all bets are off because forced air moves in whatever direction it is directed or deflected.
Large coolers like NH-D14 are great (have NH_D12 myself) because you can move same volume of air a slower speed through more area with slower fan speeds so are quieter but do need adequate intake and exhaust space.

[ghost_florian]

I guess it depends on how many hard drives he plans to install too. If it's just one, he can get rid of that HDD cage.



So the HSF unit can draw all the air from the 180mm in the front. With the exhaust, I wouldn't worry that much. If you have positive pressure inside(and you should have), the remaining hot air will exit via the vented PCI brackets.

Something like an NZXT Havik 120 or 140 would also be a great option.

[martian_aphid]

Thanks guy for the input its much appreciated. I remember when I got my last cooler and it was quite a task deciding on which one but having looked at the coolers available now its ridiculous. I counted no less than 43 manufacturers at an etailer I regularly use and each has mutiple product models - it's like everyone and their uncle has joined the CPU cooling game!

As far as the closed-loop watercoolers go, I think I've pretty much ruled them out - read a few reviews and wasn't overly impressed with their cooling performance, given their price. Their one advantage seems to be in giving a bit more space to work around the socket. On the other hand the Noctua D14 is by no means cheap at about £70! It looks nice though and I like that it can have one fan in the middle and one at the back. It does look a little close to the GPU though - any risk of shorting? I assume it has adequate clearance for RAM though. Really though I would like to be spending more in the region of £40-50 I think and probably something with a slightly smaller footprint. Anything similar to the D14 with the fan in the middle worthy of consideration? As far as the drive cage goes I think I can do away with it, at least from the outset as I'm only planning on using an SSD at first and adding a mechanical when the prices come down to a more reasonable level.

The problem of hot CPU air rising up to the GPU is one unique to this case and the mobo orientation they have chosen. Out of interest how do you construct your fan duct?

[Pob255]

Good pic GF. Remember at cooler 140mm x 140mm needs minimum of 40mm clearance to draw air... not sure how much area will be be left with HDDs installed. 140mm exhaust fan toward a 120mm vent means not all fan forced air goes out 120mm vent and hot air will be re-circulated inside of case. In the TJ08E I would build a duct from back of HSF to back vent hole so all HSF air goes directly out of case. Yes hot air rises and cold air drop, but when you start using fans all bets are off because forced air moves in whatever direction it is directed or deflected.

It will not recycle air, you've got the big 180mm at the front pushing the air through, this is a positive pressure design.
Whats more when you have a push pull set up like the D14 the fan are pushing the air out of the back, the distance between the front and back of the cooler will eliminate almost all air recycling as long as there is a vent behind it.

yes unobstructed vents (space infront and behind your fans) will be better for air flow, but the cooler it self creates a major obstruction for air flow, you cannot make generalised statements like this without confirmed testing in the given situation.

[doyll49]

If using more then one HDD the Noctua NH-U12P with one fan on exhaust would work well... Zaward Vapor 120 is not well known but very good for 27 quid

[martian_aphid]

Just reading a review on the Zaward Vapor - not bad performance for its diminutive stature and nice and quiet too - wherabouts did you find it for £27 out of interest

[doyll49]

I use hanging file folders for material. Fabricate to fit around exhaust of heatsink / fan and fit to exhaust port. PM me your email addy and I'll send you some pics.

I'm trying to basic concepts of air flow and cooling. Macintosh's Power Mac G4, G5, Mac Pro all use the principles I'm talking about.

[ghost_florian]

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/nzxt-...and-all-amd-cp

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/therm...66-amd-am2-am3

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/zalma...-all-intel-amd

Any one of these will be great. I haven't had the time to check the height of the Zalman one, but it should fit. The Havik 120 is best if you want to have a bit more space in your system.
At the end of the day it's up to you to decide what you want more, whether it's silence, looks or extreme performance, or possibly a combination of these.

[doyll49]

You can get Zaward Vapor 120 delivered for 28.21:
http://www.systo.co.uk/clearance/vap...er-zcj013.html

Sorry, 27 quid is incorrect from quick Google search

[martian_aphid]

doyll49, forgive my noobishness but I can't seem to locate a PM feature, can you point me in the right direction? I've seen those cooling "tunnels" on the macs. I actually remember older PCs having them quite often - my old dell workstation had a baffle on the CPU and so did our first family PC. Maybe with the huge number of options available nowadays having a generic system for directing the air out has become impractical and it has to be a bespoke solution.

ghost_florian, Some interesting ones there, in particular the Zalman one is very nice - What's the performance like on that since its so different to the traditional tower style coolers? I like the look of the NZXT one and if it gives a bit more breathing room its a bonus. It appears they are all below 165mm high - I think the Zalman is actually the lowest at 152mm high. Although looks are important of the three things you listed I would be willing to sacrifice looks since the case doesn't have a window, in terms of performance and silence its pretty close but maybe I'm a little more concerned with silence this time around. I will be waiting on the Ivy Bridge CPUs which are now on 22nm so I will have to wait and see if they bring lower temps and what their OC headroom will be.

EDIT: even at £1.21 extra that's still a very attractive prospect.