Cooker Wiring/Install advice

[DannyM]

Hi folks,

I'm not too sure where this one goes, nor am I sure if anyone can answer it.

We've got a Beko oif22300x single oven, when my dad installed it we just wired it to a 13amp plug and it worked fine and still does.

However I've seen a friend has the exact same oven in his kitchen but it looks like it's been wired to its own terminal which I'm thinking is a higher amp terminal and it also has a circuit breaker switch.

His oven pre-heats twice as fast as mine and his alarm sounds a lot louder.

Is there any possibility that my oven isn't receiving enough power? Or would it simply not work? I'm not wholly clued up on the workings of electrical circuits.

Thanks

[deejayburnout]

Single ovens are usually only 3kw max which is fine for a 13a plug.

Most kitchens will have a cooker switch that will supply 45 amp. you might find that a double oven and an electric hob will both be wired into the wall outlet that is fed from the cooker switch.

If they your friend had the same exact oven then there might be an issue with your one. maybe an element has gone.
He might also have the Fan oven version.

[g8ina]

That model is only 2.2kW so a 13 amp supply is more than enough. Just make sure the plug top isnt getting hot, if it does, clean the plug pins and check the wiring is tight.

[deejayburnout]

This might help.

[DannyM]

Thanks guys, I'll double check everything.

[listy]

cookers not ment to be hard wired in to wall on there own fuse? we needed 30amp wire iirc no idea what fuse it is

[Saracen]

Closed for moderation by Saracen

[Saracen]

I've closed this thread pending a moderator discussion. The reason is safety considerations.

First, I'm NOT a qualified electrician. I have some understanding, and training, but am NOT familiar with necessary regulations. So what follows is WHY I have closed this, not installation advice.

Point 1). If this device was meant to be connected to a standard 13A circuit, it'd be supplied with a plug on it, like microwaves, breadmakers, halogen cookers, etc. It wasn't, so my assumption would be it isn't.

Point 2). Having downloaded the PDF Manual, it states very explicitly it is ONLY to be installed by a qualified contractor, and failing to do do presents a fire risk and invalidates the warranty.

Point3). My limited knowledge points me at at non-plugged "cooker" installation requiring a dedicated radial circuit, I.e. direct connection, via a control unit, to a dedicated and appropriately fused circuit on the consumer unit. The control unit should be or include a double-pole isolator, I.e. both live and neutral cut by switch. However, whether "cooker" includes oven, or just hob, I'm not sure.

Also, apparently, any device of 2 Kw or more designed for hard wiring MUST be connected to a direct circuit, and as not all devices include inrernal protection, manufacturers device instructions would tell a qualified installer whether that direct circuit needs MCB protection, or not.

And, apparently, some such circuits can include a plug and socket connection, provided that plug and socket connection meets the required specification, but as I understand it, still as part of a direction connection. Such ciruits also require cabling of a ampage rating adequate to cover the draw of the device, AND the distance to consumer unit.

As a result, and because getting any part of that wrong can result in electrical fires, not doing it properly can also invalidate domestic insurance policies.

Furthermore, some home DIY electrical jobs are okay to do, but others MUST either be done by a qualified person, or checked and certified by one.

Because all these issues are of concern, and because the risk of incorrect comment or "advice" has potentially serious, maybe even lethal, consequences, and because quite a bit is unknown, like the exusting wiring spec, I'm closing this, for now at least, on the same basis that the disallow medical advice threads.

I'll bounce it to the mod team for review, and if we have any suitably qualified persons willing to advise, or to explain why my concerns are unnecessary or unduly cautious, please PM me and if appropriate, I'll re-open this thread.

[Saracen]

Following a PM chat with Danny, I'm reassured that he WILL be getting qualified advice on this, but for various reasons, not until Wednesday.

Meantime, I'm re-opening this but would ask that any advice offered be limited to people actually qualified, and I mean legally regarded as "competent persons" holding the relevant qualifications and experience, to give it.

Thanks.

[peterb]

I am not an electrician, but I do have an electrical engineering qualification.

This oven is not portable appliance and the correct method of electrical installation is to a dedicated feed from the consumer unit, through its own circuit breaker and a double pole switch.

The cooker does only take 2.3Kw which is 10 amps at 230V and so that is within the capacity of a stand UK 13 amp plug and a ring main. However, ovens tend to be on for a long period, and other high current may be used at the same time, such as kettles - especially in a kitchen. This may not be a problem if the ring main is in good condition, but any high resistance joints or breaks in the continuity of the ring main could result in a disproportionate current on one leg, leading to overheating and possibly a fire.

That fact that your oven appears to have inferior performance to an identical one installed correctly indicates a possible problem which needs investigating. It could be a fault in the oven, or a problem in the ring main, more likely if it is a older property.

You should get both checked by a professional electrician who can check the continuity of the ring main and the integrity of the wiring.

Edit: cross posted with Saracen, but I strongly endorse his final comment, which I also stated earlier.

[ik9000]

The relevant document that will say whether this is ok or not is BS7671 aka The Wiring Regulations - it is what Part P of the building regulations refers to, sadly I don't have access to this under my log-in as it's not my core area of engineering.

We just had our house wiring tested and one of the things they looked for was a separate high-amp (30A I think) cooker supply on its own circuit, with a wall mounted isolator switch. Same for the shower - that had to be on its own high amp supply too.

[GoNz0]

When I wired my house the in law said I should use 6mm cable to a 45a cooker switch that was accessible with a connector in the cupboard next to it that had a hard wired 45a rating.
This was to a dedicated RCBO in the consumer unit also rated at 45a iirc.

Needless to say it got signed off just fine with that spec.

[Saracen]

If I remember correctly, the exact spwc of the wiring, and the RCBO rating, depend on both tbe current draw of ghe appliance, and the distance to CU. If the distance exceeds a certain level, witing diameter certainly went up. Also, as you can get isolator switches with a socket on them, though it's not regarded as idea, if the isolator does have a socket, then both wirung and RCB0 rating need to be upgraded to handle any potential extra load. All told, there's quite a few variations depending on circumstances, which is probably why adding a new circuit requires a qualified person to do it. Just connecting a device to an existing one, though? I suspect not, but again, for safety's sake, I'd like to see a certified person answer that, not soneone like me.

[TheAnimus]

Where is Beanfro when we need him eh? (Qualified sparkie)

So as people have said your installation is not up to scratch and is most certainly illegal. So that's the bad news. Good news is if you are on a budget it's not hard to do this work yourself, and have the qualified professional connect the cable to the consumer unit.

As others have mentioned the thickness will depend on the distance of the wiring, but it also depends on how you run it (ie 'Clipped Direct'). So there will be a lot of homework to be done. If you want to do it yourself as much as possible, and have the qualified professional inspect your handywork and connect the consumer unit, then we will need a bit more information.

How you intend to run the wires, will this be chased on a wall? Is the wall hollow or solid brick, are you going to use trunking? The distance the wiring will have to travel to the consumer unit, remember no diagonals, only horizontal and vertical cabling. This will determine if you need 6 or 10 mm wire.

[DannyM]

Thanks for your advice and questions. I work for a company and we have a few electricians however I'm off until Wednesday so I can't get any input until then, I was just trying to find out if my oven could be faulty or if the wiring is playing a part. However I'll most certainly be getting the wiring issue resolved once I get back in to work, cost won't be an issue if I can get a colleague to look into it.

The oven is against a brick wall however we can easily run a cable directly behind it, it'll be covered by cupboards.

I'm going to post back up in this thread once I get a solution in place and advise others on the outcome.

[deejayburnout]

BTW I am a fully trained electrician and have been for 17 years. hopefully I know what I am talking about.

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