My Samsung U28D590D (4K) has arrived... and it's awesome

[jim]

But it also is using a cheaper to make TN panel too.

OTH,it could be simply Asus taking the urine,since its "ROG" branded,so they feel they can charge more for it. Everytime companies start branding these computer parts with ROG,Fatal1ty,etc the price just gets bumped up a silly amount.

However,it could be worse,like the crap that is Beats headphones.

For sure. Ultimately though, we're talking completely different markets. Most image editors don't care about refresh rates, and most gamers don't care about colour reproduction. Sure, we'd all like to have both, but I doubt many people are willing to pay the price.

For a while now we've seen a divergence in the market between pro monitors (IPS etc), and gaming monitors (TN), and I'm sure that will continue, with stratification across all the bands. Let's face it, someone could probably sell a monitor that claimed to highlight enemy players with adaptive backlighting for £1,000 and people would leap on it!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For sure. Ultimately though, we're talking completely different markets. Most image editors don't care about refresh rates, and most gamers don't care about colour reproduction. Sure, we'd all like to have both, but I doubt many people are willing to pay the price.

For a while now we've seen a divergence in the market between pro monitors (IPS etc), and gaming monitors (TN), and I'm sure that will continue, with stratification across all the bands. Let's face it, someone could probably sell a monitor that claimed to highlight enemy players with adaptive backlighting for £1,000 and people would leap on it!

There are plenty of us who do want both. I don't want to end up having to buy two monitors,just because companies persist with cheap panel technologies on highish end monitors.

You can have high refresh rates with a non-TN panel for example.Eizo make a 24" 120HZ monitor with a VA panel,but Eizo are a high end company. The tech does exist to make high refresh rate non-TN monitors,but if companies persist in pushing out TN monitors at such high price,and get decent sales,they won't bother trying with other types of panels,since they can make more money pushing TN tech. Great news if you are monitor maker I am sure.

If they cannot bother with current tech,then why bother with pushing tech like OLEDs and SEDs for example to larger displays?? All we are going to have is just more stagnation in the PC display market,while smartphones,tablets and TVs will push forward with more and more advanced display types at lower price-points.

I just increasingly think companies are seeing PC gamers as some sort of cash cow!

Edit!!

Anyway,as I mentioned earlier,it seems Asus is releasing a sub £1000 4K 27" wide gamut IPS monitor:

http://www.techpowerup.com/201513/as...-computex.html
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/asu...hva_panel.html

[dangel]

You'll see the ROG drop to 660ish once they have supply. It's pricey no doubt - but it will have to live up to it's claims to justify it (and ASUS will want it to because ROG is a strong brand for them). The TN on it (as I've said) isn't yer run of the mill one (can't be based on the specs). Remember that all tech evolves - heck IPS used to use twice the transistors just to flip pixels and need a stronger backlight than TN. I think the worry that the ROG will somehow make TN live forever is unfounded - as others are saying this is a very niche high-end product it's not going to sell market-share stealing volumes and given the objections here it obviously is a polarising product for people anyway. Rumours are the entire UK supply is in the tens (hence the premium some are charging).
It's been massively delayed though - which suggests they've had a lot of problems on delivering such a high spec or just that it took them a lot longer than normal to refine it all. Interesting in itself. I'd love to know what their BOM was in comparison to a normal 'tn'.

For reference ASUS explains their choice thus:
"Not all TN’s are made the same: the premium panel used in the PG278Q is of very high quality. IPS panels (and their derivatives like PVA/MVA etc) are not suitable for a multitude of reasons: 1) the response rate is simply not fast enough to react to the active change in refresh rate and 2) They cannot reliably achieve >60Hz without significantly affecting the quality of the image. IGZO technology (and LTPS – low temperature polysilicon – likewise) – yields 100′s of times faster electron mobility versus standard amorphous silicon panels – and thus can provide a response rate comparable to TN (up to 60Hz currently), but, however desirable this technology is, it is still currently cost prohibitively for many PC gaming enthusiasts in 2014, which is why ROG has used a better price performance, high quality TN panel."

I guess I'll see for myself - but keep in mind they're achieving 1ms GTG and 144hz without 'tricks' which does support this. Also, can anyone point me at another 1440p TN panel? From what I can tell this is unique.

For sure. Ultimately though, we're talking completely different markets. Most image editors don't care about refresh rates, and most gamers don't care about colour reproduction. Sure, we'd all like to have both, but I doubt many people are willing to pay the price.

For a while now we've seen a divergence in the market between pro monitors (IPS etc), and gaming monitors (TN), and I'm sure that will continue, with stratification across all the bands. Let's face it, someone could probably sell a monitor that claimed to highlight enemy players with adaptive backlighting for £1,000 and people would leap on it!

This has always been true - even in the CRT days there was plenty of segmentation due to different use cases. My current IPS is an economy version and I love it just fine as it strikes the right balance of cost/IQ/colour levels. I really don't see a problem with catering to different needs and nor do I think the IPS is somehow being held back - it's only really been held back by the price of entry and the answer to that was the e-panels which again are a compromise targeting a specific user case.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Supposedly the Asus is $799 in the US.

So with VAT,would be around £550.

In the US the RRP(not street price) of the Dell U2713HM is the same as the Asus($799),but the street price is around 10% to 20% lower,which means the Asus should be around £550 including VAT.

To put it in context the street price of the U2713HM in the US is similar(if not slightly higher) to that in the UK if VAT was added.

It seems Asus considers its UK customers mugs!

Go! Go! ROG Branding.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It gets better - an OcUK forum member living in Denmark can buy it for £620 delivered.Yes,bloody Denmark is cheaper. Denmark has 25% VAT and a higher cost of living than here too. Everything costs more over there.

Yet,£660+ here.

I told you the monitor was overpriced and I was right.

[shamus21]

Supposedly the Asus is $799 in the US.

So with VAT,would be around £550.

In the US the RRP(not street price) of the Dell U2713HM is the same as the Asus($799),but the street price is around 10% to 20% lower,which means the Asus should be around £550 including VAT.

To put it in context the street price of the U2713HM in the US is similar(if not slightly higher) to that in the UK if VAT was added.

It seems Asus considers its UK customers mugs!

Go! Go! ROG Branding.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



It gets better - an OcUK forum member living in Denmark can buy it for £620 delivered.Yes,bloody Denmark is cheaper. Denmark has 25% VAT and a higher cost of living than here too. Everything costs more over there.

Yet,£660+ here.

I told you the monitor was overpriced and I was right.

Its ASUS CAT-THE-FIFTH they have never been any different they always price at what they think the local market will pay and us brits are very materialistic and love to pay over the odds its sounds great when we are down the pub telling everybody how loaded we are.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Its ASUS CAT-THE-FIFTH they have never been any different they always price at what they think the local market will pay and us brits are very materialistic and love to pay over the odds its sounds great when we are down the pub telling everybody how loaded we are.

So the UK market is full of mugs then according to Asus. Figures with the amount of personal debt in this country I suppose.

But! But! Its Asus ROG and it has magical properties. Its for gamerz - its the awesomesauce,and is worth near three times the amount a similar 24" TN 144HZ monitor is or nearly double that of 27" and 29" AH-IPS monitors(running at similar resolutions to the Asus),so thats would people say and make excuses for the pricing,so Asus obliges.

Yay! We can have more £700 TN monitors which are actually around £600 and under in other countries like the US and Denmark. Denmark FFS,the country which has 25% VAT(meaning that around £30 of the £620 price is tax so technically it should be under £600 here),and where everything costs more. A pint of beer in Copenhagen is on average £5 over there,and even in London it is closer to £3.50 on average!

Then at the same time,why care to improve other panel types for the deskop,and we can be stuck with the same increasingly profit margin increasing tech for longer. Desktop makers rejoice,gamers get bamboozled by more gamerz products,and the rest of the monitor industry(like TVs and mobile) moves forward in all areas. Awesome!

[shamus21]

You could also say the same about CPUs and GPUs they do not seem to be getting any better with intel amd and nvidia charging top end prices just for continuous refreshes with little improvement in performance over the last few years.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You could also say the same about CPUs and GPUs they do not seem to be getting any better with intel amd and nvidia charging top end prices just for continuous refreshes with little improvement in performance over the last few years.

CPUs and GPUs are limited by process node limitations - monitors are not AFAIK. However,ATM it seems companies find it cheaper to use derivatives of ancient technology,so realistically the desktop is going to behind displays for phones,tablets and even TVs at this rate.

[KeyboardDemon]

CPUs and GPUs are limited by process node limitations - monitors are not AFAIK. However,ATM it seems companies find it cheaper to use derivatives of ancient technology,so realistically the desktop is going to behind displays for phones,tablets and even TVs at this rate.

I've been waiting for the PG278Q monitor since the announcement in late 2013 and so far everything I have seen and read about it makes me feel that it would be a good choice despite using a technology that was first patented around 44 years ago and is still continuing to be developed today.

If it has taken 44 years to take a TN screen to the point where it hits 2560x1440 at 144hz, with 8 bit displays and the enhanced viewing angles these now offer over earlier TN panels, how long would be reasonable to wait for an IPS screen that is capable of the same specs?

Are you saying that it is a bad idea to use a 44 year old technology as this halts progress on newer technologies?

If so, how is your car powered? And how long has that technology been around?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I've been waiting for the PG278Q monitor since the announcement in late 2013 and so far everything I have seen and read about it makes me feel that it would be a good choice despite using a technology that was first patented around 44 years ago and is still continuing to be developed today.

If it has taken 44 years to take a TN screen to the point where it hits 2560x1440 at 144hz, with 8 bit displays and the enhanced viewing angles these now offer over earlier TN panels, how long would be reasonable to wait for an IPS screen that is capable of the same specs?

Are you saying that it is a bad idea to use a 44 year old technology as this halts progress on newer technologies?

If so, how is your car powered? And how long has that technology been around?

Other technologies exist would do a better job(SED and FED being others for example),but when companies know they can still peddle old rehashed techology like TN at high pice points still,there is little or no incentive to push newer technologies. This is what Canon found out,since everyone was busy pushing old tech,since it was cheaper.

Plus spending more on TN type panel development means out of the pot of R and D money,less will be spent on other technologies too.

Even the drop in IPS and VA panel technology pricing co-incided with tablets and phones - it is not a co-incidence it happened. If not they would probably would have been bloody expensive still.

TN is only one of many technologies used to make panels which change the polarisation of light,and it only came to fruition since it was cheaper and easier to make than other active technologies,or should we still be using basic centrifudegal flow turbojets in airliners still??

Or should we still use being STN LCD displays still?? Maybe we can spend more money on evolving those too??

The car analogy is a bit meh anyway,since it has changed massively in basic scope over the last decades anyway.

What do you think LCD monitors are powered by?? Electricity which alters the polarisation of light in a panel,just an engine converts expansion of gas created by oxidation of hydrocarbons into kinetic energy by causing a piston to move.But using your analogy we would still be using OHV engines or 2 stroke engines still. Forget those 4 stroke car engines - we can still use good old two stroke.

Making excuses will mean desktop monitor technology will continue to lag behind other devices. Even IPS and VA technology has its drawbacks(but high speed panels do exist ),but the last preserve of TN seems to be desktop holdouts,and in laptops its starting to die a death especially with more and more hybrids coming out.

Good riddance. Hopefully IPS and VA will get replaced by better technology too.

Plus on top of this the UK gets charged more than the US or Denmark(!) for the same monitor,even though many other companies don't. Go Asus.

More hype=more price.

Maybe if gamers stopped falling for the bloody hype all the time,you would be paying £400 for the monitor instead of £670.

At around £350 to £450 it probably would be a fair price,but nearly £700 - ROFL. Asus is definitely testing the waters with this one. £200 is hours of productivity for nothing - better donated to some needy cause,not the next Ferrari for the top Asus shareholders or board of directors.

No,but its a gamerz monitor,so £700 is fine! Maybe Asus can make a + version at £1000 which has 0.5MS panel and 176.27832623HZ,which gives 3.8% extra kills in PS2(according to a survey of 3 gamers working for Asus),and uses a 10 bit super-duper hand picked Ultra CSTN panel,blessed by Fatal1ty himself. Finally all the gamerz will be ditching the flat panel CRTs they were using for years now.

Not only for monitors but for everything now,we see this endless hype machine towards gamerz and enthusiastz parts,which probably is borrowing from good old Apple,and sadly works.

If this monitor sets a precedence it will be a bloody disaster.

If companies know they can sell TN monitors at for £600+ why should all the 8+2 bit AH-IPS monitors be under £500?? They latter ones were closer to £1000 and there has been enormous price drops in the last three years. About time too.

Why bother to improve IPS/VA monitors for gaming when they can spin off a cheap TN one for that and charge £600+ and then they can up the price of the other one for "amateur image-editors",add some more bloody bumpf and further up the price. Just tweak the same old panel and hey presto!! Awesome!!

Up the price,and add the hype. We can all pay more.

Perhaps if they get will.i.am or Beats branding on it and they can charge £1000.

Oh! Wait! They already do that.

We will have to agree to disagree and keep it at that.

[KeyboardDemon]

Other technologies exist would do a better job(SED and FED being others for example)

Do you have any examples of such?

Even the drop in IPS and VA panel technology pricing co-incided with tablets and phones - it is not a co-incidence it happened. If not they would probably would have been bloody expensive still.

Fair enough, but there are limitations to these right? So how long should I wait before an IPS or VA screen delivers what I am looking for at the suggested £400 price point?

Or should we still use being STN LCD displays still??

I don't see a problem with doing this, so long as the technology continues to meet requirements.

The car analogy is a bit meh anyway,since it has changed massively in basic scope over the last decades anyway.

But using your analogy we would still be using OHV engines or 2 stroke engines still. Forget those 4 stroke car engines - we can still use good old two stroke.

No we wouldn't, four stroke engines started being developed in the late 1880s early 1890s, that's more than a few decades but Damiler and Benz were two of the early pioneers behind this and they developed their first engines in collaboration.

Making excuses will mean desktop monitor technology will continue to lag behind other devices. Even IPS and VA technology has its drawbacks(but high speed panels do exist ),but the last preserve of TN seems to be desktop holdouts,and in laptops its starting to die a death especially with more and more hybrids coming out.

So show me an example of a high speed IPS/VA panel, with the resolution, refresh rates and features supported on the ROG Swift.

Good riddance. Hopefully IPS and VA will get replaced by better technology too.

Now even I would like to see that.

Plus on top of this the UK gets charged more than the US or Denmark(!) for the same monitor,even though many other companies don't. Go Asus.

I'm behind you on the pricing issue, but if the alternative is to import the monitor and then have to deal with warranty issues by dealing with a company that's overseas then I don't think it is worth the hassle to save the difference.

Maybe if gamers stopped falling for the bloody hype all the time,you would be paying £400 for the monitor instead of £670.

And maybe if I wait six months the price would drop to that level anyway, but I don't want to wait, I've waited long enough and was on the brink of ordering this monitor when I read about the news of the ROG, I have had a good seven or eight months to weigh up the differences between going for a monitor that I think was around £650 at the time to a monitor that was expected to launch at £600 at the time. I could have got the cheaper Dell but I wanted the faster response times and even with Dell you can see how they are charging a premium for that faster response time when you compare it to the cheaper alternative.

At around £350 to £450 it probably would be a fair price,but nearly £700 - ROFL. Asus is definitely testing the waters with this one.

Yes, you're right, if people buy it the price will hold, if they don't it will drop, I get that, but I don't want to wait for a 'fair' price, I think it would take a year or maybe a year and half before the price of the monitor is even close to a fair price.

No,but its a gamerz monitor,so £700 is fine! Maybe Asus can make a + version at £1000 which has 0.5MS panel and 176.27832623HZ,which gives 3.8% extra kills in PS2(according to a survey of 3 gamers working for Asus),and uses a 10 bit super-duper hand picked Ultra CSTN panel,blessed by Fatal1ty himself. Finally all the gamerz will be ditching the flat panel CRTs they were using for years now.

If they did, I wouldn't buy it, but then I'd already have the ROG Swift.

Not only for monitors but for everything now,we see this endless hype machine towards gamerz and enthusiastz parts,which probably is borrowing from good old Apple,and sadly works.

Yep, consumerism is pushing the capitalist dream.

If this monitor sets a precedence it will be a bloody disaster.

Over dramatic, much?

If companies know they can sell TN monitors at for £600+ why should all the 8+2 bit AH-IPS monitors be under £500?? They latter ones were closer to £1000 and there has been enormous price drops in the last three years. About time too.

What is it that has driven the price drops? I would suggest it is competition, as the number of companies offering similar products increases the need to compete on price increases and the prices drop, lower prices mean lower margins and lower margins means companies have less money to drop into their R&D budgets.

Who else makes a 2560x1440 panel with the ROG Swift features to compete against it? I have also considered looking at a fast 4k monitor, and considered another G-Sync model with this Acer for a while, but as it also uses a TN panel I think I would rather pay the extra for the 144hz and depending on the reviews (once decent full reviews are published, the ones I've linked are very positive but are far from complete reviews) I still have the Acer as my fall back monitor.

Why bother to improve IPS/VA monitors for gaming when they can spin off a cheap TN one for that and charge £600+ and then they can up the price of the others one for "image-editors",add some more bloody bumpf and further up the price. Just tweak the same old panel and hey presto!! Awesome!!

I can't see that happening, the people that want IPS/VA panels have clearly defined requirements that can't be met by TN just as I have requirements that can't be met by IPS/VA panels.

Up the price,and add the hype. We can all pay more.

Scroll up and look at the two Dell monitors, even IPS monitors suffer from this, it's nothing new.

We will have to agree to disagree and keep it at that.

Ok, I've said my piece so will accept this.

[dangel]

Who else makes a 2560x1440 panel with the ROG Swift features to compete against it?

Nobody. And that's why I bought one too. Every review is glowing - tft centrals is up and hugely in depth and also sings it's praises.

I get that it isn't for everyone but most of what I've caught up on today reads like a rant (sorry CAT this is directed at you..) more than a reasoned argument (and I'm a reasonable chap) and I'm mystified where the rage comes from given how niche this product is. I couldn't give a fig what technology is used here if it meets all my requirements and the price is (quite agree) very high - welcome to basic economics where companies sell things for big prices if they can, and people can simply choose not to buy the product if it doesn't meet their needs or price bracket. Crikey, it's like choice is a bad thing now. Weird.
I'm stoked about this new 'toy' - and that's what it is to me - more so now that my gamble of a pre-order appears to be a sound choice for my set-up.

Be happy, make your own mind up, I did Please consider putting your point(s) across in a way that doesn't set out to ridicule people on the other side of the arguement - nobody enjoys that and it does a disservice to yourself as much as to others. On a personal note CAT I've respect for you and the help you often give to others on here over the years.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/...ift_pg278q.htm

Anyone wanna buy a IPS btw?

[KeyboardDemon]

Please consider putting your point(s) across in a way that doesn't set out to ridicule people on the other side of the arguement - nobody enjoys that and it does a disservice to yourself as much as to others.

Thanks dangel, the way Cat constructed his points made it feel like he was holding me personally responsible for holding back development with the entire PC display industry just because I had pre-ordered a screen that looked to meet all of my requirements despite not having the latest in panel technology.

On a personal note CAT I've respect for you and the help you often give to others on here over the years.

Same here, Cat is usually great with technical details that make me think about an issue in a different way, I hope we don't end up falling out over a difference of opinion on a single topic when there are so many other things for us to fall out over. No, wait, I didn't mean it like that, maybe I can just hold out my virtual hand for a virtual handshake and put an end to the

[silent]

£400 for a 4k. wow, i am in the market soon for a new monitor and wanted at least £27" 1200 px but i am thinking bigger now. the new 34" AOC on the frontpage looks good, but would this be better? bit of a bargain. i have a r9 280x 3 gig card to play games on. is that enough grunt or should i crossfire it?

[dangel]

I've got the ROG now and posted some impressions in the specific thread - but basically I love it. Lots.