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Thread: Steam and the VAC system....

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooms View Post

    XBone's reputation system promised a similar thing of if you end up having the reputation of being a dick you could only play with other dicks but that hasn't really happened from what I can see.
    Of course Richard is a less popular name at the moment....
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  2. #34
    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooms View Post
    Personally I liked now Max Payne 3 dealt with it. Caught cheating? You can still play online but you can only play with other cheaters!
    I think that only works with matchmaking systems, not systems with named servers.

    And to a degree that's what you have with Valve - servers without VAC are where the cheaters live.

  3. #35
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    How do you have it both ways, though?

    Either cheaters can be punished, or they can't.
    You misunderstand me, I think.

    I have no problem with cheaters being punished. As far as I'm concerned, if they never play another game for the rest of their life, I won't lose a wink of sleep.

    But, I won't buy ANY game where, having bought it, I then have to rely on the existence of a server to 'validate' me before letting me play the game I bought, and paid for.

    But, I'm not particularly interested in online gaming with strangers. I'm perfectly content with standalone games, single-player, or small, LAN games with me and two or three mates, locally. So, personally, cheaters don't really affect me.

    What does affect me is buying a game, then having to go cap-in-hand to Steam, or anyone else (Origin, etc) to get permission to play it. I'm also not a fan of buying downloads. I want it on CD/DVD and in terms of buying software, have bought and downloaded a grand total of about half a dozen items.

    That (downloading purchases) I don't like and, on principle, am not doing.

    And THAT means I don't get to buy many games these days.

    Any game that requires accessing an activation server is not a game I'm willing to buy, because the ability to run the game is at someone else's whim to grant or deny. And, of course, it means I'm also dependent on the continued existence of that company, AND their running those servers, in years to come, if I want to go back and play it again.

    And that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

    I'm not interested in Steam games because if their DRM, but not because they do or don't ban cheats, but because they have the ability to do it, and because their T&Cs award them huge leeway, and almost no right to object. So, I buy 100 games at £35 each, and they can vaporise my £3500 investment, at will.

    Not happening.

  4. #36
    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    So this is the response given,


    Hello ######,

    Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

    Our system indicates that the account has been permanently banned by the Valve Anti-Cheat system (VAC) for use of cheats or other unauthorized modifications. Steam Support is unable to lift the ban.

    We will not disclose the cheats which were detected, nor will we provide the date and time the infraction took place. VAC has confirmed that the ban on the account was applied legitimately.

    This ban applies to a Steam account (regardless of who was using the account or borrowing the game at the time the infraction occurred). The use and security of the Steam account is your responsibility.


    To see which games your VAC ban affects, please launch Steam and go to Steam > Settings > Account tab > select "Click here for details" under VAC Status.

    You may still play single-player and connect to non-secure servers (if applicable).

    We cannot move game subscriptions from accounts which have been banned by VAC.


    If you choose to purchase a new copy of the VAC banned game(s), please create a new Steam account to register the game(s) on.

    For more information on Valve's policies, please see the Steam Subscriber Agreement and the Rules of Steam Online Conduct:

    Steam Subscriber Agreement
    http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

    Rules of Steam Online Conduct
    http://store.steampowered.com/online_conduct/

    Valve Anti-Cheat System (VAC)
    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...7849-RADZ-6869

    I've Been Banned
    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...4044-QDHJ-5691

    So no help there....
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    So if he goes to the place they say, what does it say? Does it just say the games you know he's banned from, or does it also say games he hasn't bought? (as in has he been banned from all CoD games for example)

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by razer121 View Post
    ....

    So no help there....
    Which, as I said, pretty much boils down to judge, jury and executioner. In fact, it's more of Star Chamber, decisions made in secret, no access to the accusation never mind evidence, and no right of appeal.

    I have no view, at all, on whether they are justified or not, in this specific case. Maybe they are.

    My stance, however, is that I am not, under any circumstances, paying hundreds, or over a period, thousands of pounds for games that a private company can, at a whim, decide I'm not longer entitled to play. On principle, no game is worth agreeing to that, in my opinion. So, while Steam hold that level of arbitrary power, I will not buy any Steam game, regardless of what it is, how much I might fancy playing it, or the price.

    Not now, not ever.

    And THAT locks me out of a lot of modern games.

    Shame, but .... so be it.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Which, as I said, pretty much boils down to judge, jury and executioner. In fact, it's more of Star Chamber, decisions made in secret, no access to the accusation never mind evidence, and no right of appeal.

    I have no view, at all, on whether they are justified or not, in this specific case. Maybe they are.

    My stance, however, is that I am not, under any circumstances, paying hundreds, or over a period, thousands of pounds for games that a private company can, at a whim, decide I'm not longer entitled to play. On principle, no game is worth agreeing to that, in my opinion. So, while Steam hold that level of arbitrary power, I will not buy any Steam game, regardless of what it is, how much I might fancy playing it, or the price.

    Not now, not ever.

    And THAT locks me out of a lot of modern games.

    Shame, but .... so be it.
    That's fair enough, although I support, at least in principle, not giving details of when/why, since if cheaters find out what cause them to get caught they'll be more likely to develop ways to avoid it (in my opinion) which would mean more cheaters I think.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    its very rare that VAC makes a mistake... tons of people on RUST keep trying to say "but I didnt cheat" when in fact, a quick google of the username shows them as members of cheating sites lol

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Oh I don't disagree a good deal of the 'but I didn't cheat' crew probably did cheat, but it would make sense at least a few of them genuinely did nothing wrong, and get dismissed along with the rest as cheaters.

    Obviously we don't know how Valve deal with VAC bans, but it would be nice if they could at least investigate some of them rather than just defaulting to 'computer says no, sod off' in their replies - as we know signature and heuristic based scanning can give many false negatives, as is more obvious with antivirus software - anti-cheat scanners don't work all that differently.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    they do investigate.. and in a few rare cases, they have listed the ban. Its just very slim. One of the ways VAC catches you is by watching your network traffic while gaming.. there are a number of cheat sites that actually have DRM and you pay to use the cheat. When the cheat is running, it goes out to the cheat server and verifies that you have paid. VAC sees this and throws you in the BAN Pile.. (VAC bans are never instant, they do it in waves) - once flagged... next ban round... BLAM. It also watches the game and verifies the game files... making sure you are injecting any code into it... Its pretty much foolproof.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Yeah I've heard of bans being lifted (even though they say that never happens and imply VAC can never make a mistake), but the cases I've heard of, it's been for widespread problems. And even non-cheat mods they've previously banned for, but now only kick, they don't lift the old unfair bans.

    As I've said before, I was following a thread on Steam support where a guy got banned, accused of being a cheater and worse, support was refused by Valve etc. But a while later, he updated the thread saying the ban had been lifted, but only after Valve took notice when it became widespread.

    Unlike with malware scanners, as bystanders we can't really be sure what the false positive/negative statistics are like - sure the theory is sound, but that doesn't always translate into practice. And it's a shame for those people who pay money for a game, only to be unfairly banned through no fault of their own.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    I would be VERY few are being unfairly banned. Its pretty simple... If you install the game, and play it without trying to modify it in any way, you wont get banned. Every person that i have seen claiming BS.. has been busted for using cheats on other games as well. I just dont understand why anyone would buy a game.. and then cheat on it. That kind of takes the fun out of it.

    There was a recent mistake with CS:GO (http://steamcommunity.com/app/730/di...7287497644024/) but again - this was with multiple accounts.. they found the problem and fixed it. People who were banned got it lifted.

    Its simple, dont cheat and you wont get banned.

  13. #45
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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Quote Originally Posted by StaticFX View Post
    If you install the game, and play it without trying to modify it in any way, you wont get banned.
    As I've just been explaining though, that's certainly not always the case. Yeah in the example I used, he did get unbanned after a while, but only because the problem started affecting a load of people. What if it had only been a few people?

    He only posted back to show he was being falsely accused of cheating, VAC never makes mistakes, etc. Funnily enough the arrogant trolls on the thread never bothered replying...

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    they will manually check the data... and In a few cases they will lift it. But, like you said... the problem effected a number of people.
    Im just saying that of all the anti cheat systems out there.. VAC is the most accurate.

    I try not to troll anyone - but if a quick google of the username shows a bunch of cheat sites... its kind of a open and shut case


    I will admit though.. it does worry me... as you said. "What if?" lol.. so if i did get banned for not cheating... that would suck! lol

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    Yeah exactly, that's what concerns me. And I agree it does seem to be the most effective anti-cheat system I know of. Punkbuster in my experience seemed overly intrusive, yet very ineffective at stopping cheaters.

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    Re: Steam and the VAC system....

    LOL yeah, does Punkbuster even do anything except waste HD space?

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