I hate this place

[IBM]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/6963480.stm

Scum

I grew up in Sunderland. It's a pretty enough place, nice parks, some interesting architecture, pretty good beaches nearby. Then you meet the people, and you suddenly want to run screaming for the hills.

I know it's probably no worse than hundreds of other places around the country, but I dread going to visit my parents (only been back once in the last five years) just because I know I'm going to come away fuming at the complete stupidity you can see on every street.

Anyone else feel this jaded about their hometown? Or is it just me?

[pollaxe]

It's not just you. Sometimes I think it's down to a generation thing (we despair at the youngsters below us, just as the older generation despaired of us) but now I'm not so sure.

There are a lot of issues with society at large that are really starting to concern me, maybe (at 35) I'm just an old git but I do know on the rare occasions when I venture out in the evenings I don't like what I see or hear. This is equally true in Small Town England (as New Model Army has it) as well as in the cities. Bah.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Yep where i use to live it has become a place where crackheads under 15 hang out and cause trouble. Its shocking but i believe the route of all these teenagers sniffing crap and shooting random people are due to two things. there parents are retards and dont know how to disipline there children and the root of where all the guns and drugs are comming from.

You can literely go down the local newsagent and get a gun easily..

[javalord]

Dare I say this, but I think part of the problem is that the government makes it incredibly easy for people to breed and consume state benefits afterwards, but these people tend not to be fit role models for children nevermind discipline... these kids learn the behaviour from somewhere, and it doesnt help that challanging such behaviour now results in a broken window!

[Paulm@scan]

It is not always the parents fault although I do agree in some ways they can do better. You try and control a child in rough area's who grow up to want to be just like one another. In a way you could say it is the governments fault for getting rid of corporal punishment.

[Funkstar]

And you can't directly blame the government for making corporal punishment illegal, it is societies attitude to it that would have forced the government to make it illegal.

There for, you should be blaming society as a whole for unruly behaviour found in (a small percentage of) youth today.

And because society is everybody, including you, it's actually your fault!

hows that for logic?

(yes, i'm being sarcastic, but think about it, blame isn't exactly black and white here)

[Saracen]

It's easy to blame parents, but I think it's considerably more complex than that.

Parents can't monitor their kids activities 24/7. If a child lies to the parent about where he's going and what he's doing, the only way the parent can be sure is to not let the kid out of your sight EVER. That might work for a 3 year old, but 15?

Personally, I think it's a whole series of things, including some element of very poor parenting. But the lack of authority to effectively discipline in schools plays its part, as do drugs, and most emphatically as do social inequality and deprivation. And I'm sure I've missed a few things out.

In my opinion, there was nothing like a level of serious "casual" crime in decades past. Crime, yeah, and some of it very violent. We had bank robbers with shotguns and we certainly had serial killers, etc. But the seriousness of this level of seemingly-casual pointless crime didn't exist, or certainly not on anything remotely resembling the scale we have now.

Why? Well, perhaps because if you go back to the 50s and 60s, you had post-war austerity, where simply clothing the family and putting food on the table was a matter for effort. Most of the most conspicuous aspects of consumption (iPods, mobile phones, etc) simply didn't exist, and even mass media (newspapers and TV) were far more restrained than they are now. People were also a lot less mobile. Cars, for instance, were a sign of relative affluence, and certainly not something the average teenager expected (and got) 10 minutes after his 17th birthday.

Part of our problem is the relative affluence of society. The more the majority of people have, and the more it's flaunted by virtue of communications (TV, internet, etc), the more it's rubbed into the noses of those that don't have it. If you then add poor education, sink estates, and a very clear sense of social separation and exclusion, the "have and have-not" syndrome, if you add both parents working (either because they want to to get that level of material possessions they seek, or because they have to to feed the kids), then you're going to breed resentment, and kids without a strong family life are vulnerable to the alternative "gang" family.

Oh, and travel. It's not so long ago that most people lived their lives without ever seeing another country. Now, vast numbers jet off round the world and hardly give it a second thought. It's not so long ago that getting to New York was a major undertaking, because turbo-prop planes were slow, and it meant stopping off (Gander, perhaps), and EXPENSIVE.

I think our current situation is the result of a complex set of factors, and defies easy analysis let alone easy cure. Society has changed, largely for the better. But that "have and have not" syndrome breeds problems. If you wave a far better (or perhaps I should say attractive) lifestyle under someone's nose, then set up a situation showing them why they stand little or no chance of (legally) attaining it, is it small wonder they don't feel part of it?

[Funkstar]

Good well thought out post there Saracen.

I don't believe these problems are unique to the UK either. We obviously here about them all the time because we live here, but what about other countries? are they really much different? It's not really something i could give an opinin on, i wouldn't know where to start looking for evidence to donfirm or dispute that. Perhaps someone on the boards that lives in mainland europe could comment.

I know ibm was speaking from personal experience, and you can't really argue with that. But when it is being reported in the popular press you sometimes have to wonder if it really is as pervasive as they make out. Or is it 'fasionable' in the media to report these kinds of stories at the moment?

[teachmech]

To a certain extent a child's attitude and behavior are fixed before they enter education how they have been taught right and wrong is already fixed. If their parent (parents) have failed then it is very difficult to put this right after they start school. So (to me) it does come down at first to parents in young children.

After this then all hell breaks loose and other factors take over as has been pointed out.

I may self am a secondary school maths teacher so I teach children from year 7 (11 yrs) up to year 13 (18 yrs). The majority of pupils and parents want to achieve their best but a minor few present challenging behavior. We deal with parents that constantly undermine the schools beleaguered authority by saying you can't do that to my child. It is these same parents that turn up a few years later as the child has progressed through school saying can you please help me as I can do nothing with them.

We must always remember it is the minority of us that do these things.

Having said that I am about to move from a town in to the middle of the countryside for some peace and quiet nearest neighbor is about 1 mile away down a narrow lane.

[roorooroo]

I want to live somewhere where my neighbour is at least a mile away too.

[hitman67]

Originally Posted by roorooroo

I want to live somewhere where my neighbour is at least a mile away too.

Chernobyl?

[chriswood_7]

Cant believe that happened to that young guy in Sunderland. I work in Sunderland and done my degree there, and I must admit it doesnt suprise me at all... Some of the people you see walking round the place are socially inept, and I think unemployment is high. The only thing stopping me from moving away is my job, but I live in an equally poor town up the road called Gateshead. The place is now being regenerated and is not what it was 10 years ago, which was a run down dive with nothing but an ugly multi-storey car park as an eye sore and a dole queue as long as they come.

I agree with a lot said in this thread, any myself being brought up on a council estate I have seen a lot of this first hand. However, it seems to be getting WORSE now as the kids think they are invincible and have a SEVERE attitude problem towards anyone. They speak to the Police like crap, and anyone who gets involved to tell them to be quiet/keep noise down is likely to either get shot or stabbed. And that is the SAD SAD fact of todays society. I remember in my day (im only 24) I used to be petrified of the police, and respect them. Nowadays the kids have no authoritative figure to fear, and that is the underlying issue.

What I think we need to do, as a British society is to bring back school discipline, in particular for kids with SEVERE bad behaviour. Todays teenagers need something to fear, or at least respect. If theyre parents are not this figure, we need to instill this at an early age to MAKE them understand what is right and what is wrong. Of course I can say this like its an easy task but I think teachers need to be given powers like this.

I also agree that class is an issue, as people nowadays have far more disposable income than they did 30-40 years ago, and also a lot more debt.

Hope this adds new light to the discussion,

[javalord]

Originally Posted by Paulm@scan

It is not always the parents fault although I do agree in some ways they can do better. You try and control a child in rough area's who grow up to want to be just like one another. In a way you could say it is the governments fault for getting rid of corporal punishment.

Its not just parents, thats just one key of the matter.

[roorooroo]

Originally Posted by hitman67

Chernobyl?

Lol..no thanks I was thinking of some far off habitable planet..(with internet access of course).

[emul8]

Originally Posted by teachmech

To a certain extent a child's attitude and behavior are fixed before they enter education how they have been taught right and wrong is already fixed. If their parent (parents) have failed then it is very difficult to put this right after they start school. So (to me) it does come down at first to parents in young children.

Couldn't agree more.