Petition to Save Southall Black Sisters

[nichomach]

Originally Posted by Stewart

Poor victimised white male rubbish

Right, because a music award is just so like a service provided for domestic violence victims...
Don't like it, don't sign it. Simple as.

[Stewart]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bothered in the slightest by the MOBOs, I'm just irked by the thought that if someone tried to set up the MOWOs, Guardian reader types would be up in arms.

I find it strange that those people making the most noise on issues of race, and fairness for all, are exactly the sort of people who would object to any sort of fairness that didn't center around minority groups.

And Nicho - life isn't easy when you're a straight, white male.

[Blackmage]

Originally Posted by nichomach

They WOULD help her; but part of that help would probably be to get her into a women's refuge that was not specifically provided to assist with the specific issues affecting women from ethnic minorities. And I'm not missing your point; you appear to be missing the point that SBS exists and has done for nearly 30 years because it answers a specific range of needs that more general services answer less well. See the consultant neurologist example.

Why is the local Council refusing to fund it? Mostly because it doesn't cater to everyone. slowly organsations like this will close down because people are moving with their lifes and race starts to become less important.

Look, they are in the situation because the council does see it needed any more. If they opened it up for women all races they would have a better fight? I for one wouldn't be arguing on a forum and would of signed it.

I would just like to know that if my sisters need help from domestic violence, that a White womens organsation would help them.

This organsation is very old fashioned, and it's 2008. Things like domestic violence doesn't discriminate against race.

I'm done

[nichomach]

We already have awards ceremonies for music of largely white origin. My Dad's a traditional Irish musician and there are awards for that, we have classical awards - and the classics are overwhelmingly still founded upon the work of Dead White European Males - etc. I'd also point out that the MOBOs aren't restricted to black people; white artists are regularly nominated and receive awards also.

[Bazzlad]

Signed matey

[educatedfool]

Originally Posted by nichomach

Right; so forcing the closing down of a specialist service and its integration with general services, losing the expertise in the process. I'd say the analogy was dead on. It's just not one that you like, as your casual dismissal of their expertise ("used loosely"?) demonstrates. Fine, don't sign the petition, no-one's forcing you to.

I just don't like the view that having a different skin colour means you can somehow gain this expertise.

1) Comparing a Neurologist to a social worker
2) The neurologist wasn't being shut down
3) Comparing different ethnic backgrounds to illnesses?

And by integration I mean that there would still be people who are more prepared to deal with forced marriages and such. So when they show up at the refuge they can be pointed in the right direction, that way there is no race discrimination. For you have one entity which is equiped to deal with anyone that turns up.

To put it in your words: Say you showed up at a hospital with a particular problem, they would tell you where to go and who to see.

[nichomach]

1) A matter of degree; and it's an analogy. There is specialisation in social work as well, you know - Of course, having dedicated child protection social workers and elderly care social workers must be eeeeeeeeeeevil discrimination...
2) Effectively, he was, by being prevented from working in his specialty by being forced to integrate general cases.
3) Differing circumstances in one profession leading to a requirement for differing or more specialised skills being directly compared to differing circumstances requiring differing or more specialised skills in another.
And if you showed up at a hospital needing a doctor's note or with a condition that you know there are primary care facilities available to deal with, they'd tell you you should have gone to your GP.

[nichomach]

Originally Posted by Blackmage

Why is the local Council refusing to fund it...

Because they want to cut costs.

Originally Posted by Blackmage

Look, they are in the situation because the council does see it needed any more. If they opened it up for women all races they would have a better fight? I for one wouldn't be arguing on a forum and would of signed it.

The council are not basing their assessment upon need, but rather on what might be called the "politically correct" criterion, that regardless of the need for the facility, it looks divisive to have a facility targeted at that need. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell you! Oh, and a desire to cut costs. So your view is that they should abandon the specialist knowledge that they have acquired in order to...duplicate existing services that are already available to women who don't need that more specialist help.

Originally Posted by Blackmage

I would just like to know that if my sisters need help from domestic violence, that a White womens organsation would help them.

There aren't any labelled specifically as white women's organizations so far as I am aware, if only because in general the same sort of specialist problems don't arise.

Originally Posted by Blackmage

This organsation is very old fashioned, and it's 2008. Things like domestic violence doesn't discriminate against race.

Really. How many white British forced marriages have you heard about lately, then, just as an example?

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by nichomach

How many white British forced marriages have you heard about lately, then, just as an example?

Heather Mills and Macca.

[educatedfool]

Originally Posted by nichomach

And if you showed up at a hospital needing a doctor's note or with a condition that you know there are primary care facilities available to deal with, they'd tell you you should have gone to your GP.

That doesn't even fit with what I was trying to explain. I was saying that if all the services that women (of all backgrounds) may require in this area where in one place, wouldn't it be better? If the people who already work for SBS were integrated with the existing services for women it would require less funding, less paperwork as you have a single entity which is able to deal with all problems.

Domestic abuse is domestic abuse, so these people could help others of all backgrounds, then when a more specialist case comes up, they are needed, and they can help. They wouldn't be wasting their expertise, because, their expertise is helping women.

[nichomach]

Yes, OK, we should have a refuge just for Macca, it's true... Ealing not the best place to do that - all too accessible to mad limping stalker women if you ask me...

[Blackmage]

Originally Posted by nichomach

Because they want to cut costs.

The council are not basing their assessment upon need, but rather on what might be called the "politically correct" criterion, that regardless of the need for the facility, it looks divisive to have a facility targeted at that need. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell you! Oh, and a desire to cut costs. So your view is that they should abandon the specialist knowledge that they have acquired in order to...duplicate existing services that are already available to women who don't need that more specialist help.

Existing services that are available to the "majority of women"

Originally Posted by nichomach

There aren't any labelled specifically as white women's organizations so far as I am aware, if only because in general the same sort of specialist problems don't arise.

Are you joking me, Domestic violence.(whats specialist in that) have you seem that idiot Jeremry kyle

Originally Posted by nichomach

Really. How many white British forced marriages have you heard about lately, then, just as an example?

None, but their are dedicated organisations for this. I also consider this specialist.

What is so specialist about a domestic violence, why it's for ethnics only?

[nichomach]

Originally Posted by educatedfool

That doesn't even fit with what I was trying to explain....

You're assuming that the workload upon their specialist skills is currently so light that they're overburdened with free time; rather the reverse. This is not a decision based upon a lack of need for SBS, ef. It's based upon a desire to cut costs covered with a fig-leaf of inclusiveness. Ealing know that other services are not adequate to deal with the special requirements that SBS cover, and nor will they magically become so. They don't care. They get to cut costs at the expense of losing a very valued and internationally respected service (and bear in mind that while it might receive some funding it's dependent upon voluntary support), and cover for it by calling them "divisive".

[nichomach]

Originally Posted by Blackmage

Existing services that are available to the "majority of women"

So the only services that should be available are those that cater to the majority? There should be no specialised services for people whose needs may be different in some respect?

Originally Posted by Blackmage

Are you joking me, Domestic violence.(whats specialist in that) have you seem that idiot Jeremry kyle

1) SBS don't just deal with domestic violence. Look at their website.
2) Even where they are, the domestic violence is not in itself the distinguishing factor. Look at their website.

Originally Posted by Blackmage

None, but their are dedicated organisations for this. I also consider this specialist.

Really? Name them. I can name one very prominent one to get you started; Southall Black Sisters. Look at their website.

Originally Posted by Blackmage

What is so specialist about a domestic violence, why it's for ethnics only?

Domestic violence is an issue that goes across all ethnic groups, no question, but when dealing with it there may be complicating factors peculiar to specific ethnic groups, and some victims may require a much broader range of services than are available from a traditional womens' refuge (which BTW, SBS are not). Look at their website.

Southall Black Sisters provides information, advice, advocacy, practical help, counselling and support to women and children experiencing domestic and sexual violence (including forced marriage and honour crimes). Our holistic services aim to help them escape violence and abuse and deal with a range of inter related problems such as:

# Rape and sexual abuse
# Sexual harassment
# Dowry related abuse
# Matrimonial issues
# Child residence and contact
# Housing and homelessness
# Immigration and asylum
# Depression, mental health, suicide and self harm
# Policing and crime
# Suspicious deaths and coroners' inquests
# Civil actions
# Human rights
# Racism

We provide the following services in English, Hindi, Punjabi, Gujarati and Urdu.

Some of the above may be provided by other groups, but a lot are not and even where the names look familiar, the actual services may be different. Look at their website.

Anyway, I'm not here to try to force you to sign anything; I posted to ask people, if they felt they could, to sign the petition. You don't feel that you can, or you don't want to; fine, OK, entirely your call, naturally .

[JPreston]

Originally Posted by Mike Fishcake

Tell you what - let's have a Hexus.Kneejerk section where people can go any time they want to cack on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about TEH EVIL POLITICKAL CORECTNESS. That way those of us that are tired of reading sub Littlejohn-esque replies to virtually every single thread in General Discussion (regardless of how relevant) can just ignore that section to avoid having to plough through ill informed ranting, and those that like to wallow in their own blinkered self-pity can do so in the company of others.

Quite . Seriously, FFS

I've given up with that petition site and don't sign anything anymore but this is as noble a cause as any.

And Stewart there is a MOWO but it doesn't get much publicity as every year in all categories the only nominees are Chas and Dave.