Manchester Congestion Charge

[Mike Fishcake]

Not sure how much of this has been in the national media, but here in Greater Manchester, it's been all over the news.

Manchester is one of the cities that has been looking at a congestion charge. However, this is in an advanced state of planning compared to all the other cities looking at it, and looks to be the next one to fall victim to it.

More information about it on the Manchester Evening News website: Search results for congestion charge - Manchester Evening News

It's a bit different to the London charge in that there are two zones; there's the inner zone surrounding the immediate city centre, and the outer zone which covers everywhere inside the M60 ring road, which I think probably averages at about a 4 mile radius around the centre. (see here )

As someone that lives inside the outer zone, I'd "only" be paying £2 a day at the current rates during peak hours, but for anyone driving more than about 4/5 miles away, it's likely to cost them £5 daily.

There's a site with interesting info here: Stop the Charge ! It's calling for a referendum for the people of Greater Manchester.

Obviously it's a bit biased, but it does contain interesting information.

Road tax, petrol tax, and now it looks like road pricing and congestion charge. If this pulls off in Manchester, it won't be long before other cities start following suit.

[Blitzen]

If people in London have to pay then why should other major cities be exempt?

I must admit, it doesnt affect me anyway as i live in a village, but i do goto Cambridge/Peterborough/Bedford/London a fair bit so dont mind paying occassionally.

[Lee @ SCAN]

It's a joke really, all the congestion charges are in essence are another stealth tax.

London has many options other than car for transport such as a good train network with underground as well as good bus coverage with a fast pay system that WORKS. Manchester on the other hand doesn't have a public transport network which is a good and a metrolink system that covers hardly anywhere at all and on the buses up here, if you give the driver anything over the fare you are paying they look at you as if you've just broken into their house and emptied your bowels onto their fresh clean bedding.

If they want to drive people from using cars by these charges firstly they need to look at the infrastructure and improve rail and bus times alike.

I do feel sorry for my housemate though. We live less than a 1 mile from the outskirts of the outer sector. His work is is just 300m within the outer zone and as such he's going to be paying a hell of a lot just to get to work each day.

[TheAnimus]

I wouldn't really describe it as a stealth tax if it does its job.

That is to say there are too many people on the road, so it removes those who its less important for them to make that journy (assuming equal distrabution of wealth, which isn't of course true).

But it is still the fairest fesiable solution for divying up the road space.

Lee, enless i miss understand, you live less than 1 mile from the zone, which your work is 300m inside..... so 1.2 miles away roughly? Considered walking?

[Paulm@scan]

The girllfriend works in Manchester she tried getting the train in when she started she would constantly be late and packed so she had to get the earlier one which was just as reliable and packed. She drives now but car shares with her friend I think this congestion charge is ridiculus more ways to take money off the poor to feed the rich. Obviously this charge is not going to effect your high flyers with their Gas guzzling HGVs and the women on the school run in their Landrover Sports they can afford it. Ironic a lot work in Manchester to earn more but can t afford to get there never mind live there... Joke

[Mike Fishcake]

But it's debatable as to whether it will do it's job, and for the right reasons. It's all too easy to say it's a good thing when it doesn't actually affect you personally.

What's your opinion on the points raised on this particular page?

Stop the Charge - Alternatives

Edit: also, the amount given to manchester by the government has already been cut, and there are many, many places in the greater manchester area that won't see an improvement in the public transport service.

[dangel]

Well at least it'll keep those darn poor people off our roads. They should be home watching Sky dammit!

Cambridge is next, apparently. And once they've done the cities then the motorways joining them. And don't forget the obligatory prices rises way above inflation each year.

[Lee @ SCAN]

Originally Posted by TheAnimus

Lee, unless i miss understand, you live less than 1 mile from the zone, which your work is 300m inside..... so 1.2 miles away roughly? Considered walking?

He can't really as the cars needed for his job.

He's a programmer who works for a fairly large company who deals with the councils online payment systems and as such needs his car as he's always going from place to place like Stockport, Manchester, Leeds, Hull and various places in London.

I work 9.6 (according to google maps and my satnav as well) miles the opposite direction and thus the charges will not apply to me

[TheAnimus]

I suppose, but still 1.2 miles is very walkable distance in 10 minuites even by the most un-fit people (like me!) Hardly an ordeal to keep the car at home.

I think its a bad idea for manchester anyway, because Lee's a better example, at 9.6miles away with no real public transport.

I live ~7 miles away from central london inside the c charge where i work. I wouldn't dream of driving even if the charge wasn't there purely because theirs a tube that does it in a very reliable time. At peak time every 1-3 minutes. Manchester doesn't seam to have that infrastructure.

[zulander]

I don't know if i have misunderstood what's going on but part of the charge includes the M60. Now me and missus like to go for rides out etc and basically have to use the M60. So does this mean that we have to pay everytime we use it to go from say oldham to stockport? If this is is the case its a joke there is no public transport service between the 2. If we are to go further afield then again we cant use public transport but why should we pay for extra to use a car because of it? its a joke. The infrastructure up here is very different to London the metro link was supposed to come to Oldham and Ashton years ago but has never arrived and despite promises that it will i cant actually see it happening. Buses take forever to get anywhere and they are already struggling to cope with the demands placed on them. The buses into Manchester are always late and over crowded and the routes them selves already cover such a wide area because of people living in the country side that they cant really cope with the added passengers that a c charge may bring. Couple that with the fact it is yet another tax on motorists and id vote no and i dont even drive.

[Lee @ SCAN]

Originally Posted by TheAnimus

I think its a bad idea for manchester anyway, because Lee's a better example, at 9.6miles away with no real public transport.

Oh my journey on public transport to and from work is the stuff Hitchcock films were made of.

If I get the train I have to get the train from Walkden towards Manchester, change at either Salford Crescent, Salford Central or Piccadilly and then get a train from there to Bolton or directly to Horwich Parkway. If I do this I have to leave at 7 am in order to get here for 9.

Buses... well, they're not too bad - I get one from the end of my street towards Bolton which are every 10 minutes. At Bolton I change to another bus and then walk from Horwich to work. Again, I have to leave at 7am to even get here before 9am, sometimes it's later due to all school traffic as the 2 buses pass 4 major schools. The only thing about buses is the brain-dead school kids that think they're big and tough trying to intimidate all the rest of the passengers by anti-social behavour such as smoking, drinking, swearing and of course who can forget the playing of scouse house on their samsung mobile phones.

[kalniel]

Those alternatives are mostly terrible IMHO.

Anyway, I'm back to my preferred option - increase fuel duty and use the money to further improve public transport It's not stealthy, it's a transparent, easy to understand tax whereby you only pay for what you use

If you need some means of distinguishing rural and city life then see if the price at the pump is more expensive in a city than in rural areas, if it's not then maybe consider a way of subsidising rural pumps.

[TheAnimus]

Originally Posted by Mike Fishcake

What's your opinion on the points raised on this particular page?

Stop the Charge - Alternatives

Those alternatives where written by a moron and will do nothing for their cause.

Things like examples of dutch villages optomising traffic lights. Is that not already happening? Traffic flow analysis is VERY complecated, and the search space gets exponetnally bigger the larger the city.

Increasing corperation tax isn't generally a good idea when your somewhere that is trying to attract more businesses.

"explore other options" sounds like we don't have a better suggestion, but don't like this idea.
etc.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TheAnimus

....

That is to say there are too many people on the road, so it removes those who its less important for them to make that journy (assuming equal distrabution of wealth, which isn't of course true).

But it is still the fairest fesiable solution for divying up the road space. ....

It is, of course, the bit in brackets that represents the major problem. It's a wonderful thing for those in their new BMWs, Mercs or Range Rovers, since if you can afford that, you can presumably afford the congestion charge. But what about the average public?

How is it "fair"? It's essentially restricting road usage according to wealth and clobbering an already heavily clobbered motorist again, which inevitably hits hardest on those least able to pay.

Those with the new Beamers and Mercs will bitch about the cost, but pay it .... and enjoy the clearer road experience because a lot of other people won't be able to afford to pay it, regardless of how important their journey was.

[eshrules]

do we know just how far this charge will stretch?

I 'suffered' a recent works relocation to trafford park (11 miles from home) and if I need to pay a further tax on top of an already increased (and rising) diesel bill, it may spell the end of this job for me....

those who rarely visit these 'taxed' cities ought to think of the more practical implications of this on low-income individuals struggling to get anywhere in life.

[Paulm@scan]

All this is rubbish it seriously messes with my head, do we need another world war to sort this country out again?

This is a typical action for a Country which want to appear to be doing something about an issue, have no intention or thought on the poorer people who generally need a car for work. This country's answer to every problem is oh we will either raise tax here or create a new one here then we can charge motorist more here and if they want to go into our big towns we will add a charge here. Ok those who make the rules are already in top end wages and enjoy a ~government paid lifestyle and they still seem to absue it.