Ebay, non paying bidders leaving neg feedback.

[Gordy]

I've been having some issues with a buyer and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience and could let me know what happened.

I will try to explain what happened simply.

I put up for auction an set Apple OS X Leopard install discs. I had plenty of bidders however the final highest bidder sent an email 4hrs before then end of the auction saying that he no longer wanted to bid on the item as he'd already won another auction.

I didn't read this until after the end of the auction, looking into it the bidder couldn't cancel the bid anyway as the ebay system only allows it for three reasons. None of which are winning another auction.

I emailed the buyer saying that he was going to have to pay as he'd bid on the item and it wasn't covered by the three possible reasons for cancelling a bid. The email back was almost unreadable, but was unapologetic. We've had a few emails back and forth in the last 7 days but he's never wanted to pay apart from asking for £10 off the bid price and he would pay.

Long and the short of it is that he's been reported as a non paying bidder, but he's left me my first negative feedback which I'm slightly annoyed at. How can non paying bidders be allowed to leave negative feedback?? Looking at ebays help system I don't hold out much hope of getting it removed. It's not the worst thing in the world particularly as it says the following " sorry but your a saw losser as i didnt wont item" . So it kind of shows that it's not down to me but him changing his mind.

Any advice would be great.

[Steve]

A "saw losser"? He didn't "wont" the item.

Oh dear oh dear.

Any case for getting it removed on account of the fact that the bidder was an idiot?

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by Steve

A "saw losser"? He didn't "wont" the item.

Oh dear oh dear.

Any case for getting it removed on account of the fact that the bidder was an idiot?

Sadly I checked and it appears not.

I think the stupid is strong with this one. Most of his emails were barely readable and struggled to be longer than one sentence.

[MadduckUK]

Originally Posted by Gordy

I think the stupid is strong with this one. Most of his emails were barely readable and struggled to be longer than one sentence.

can see why he's trying to buy OSX then

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

[Fraz]

Originally Posted by Gordy

"sorry but your a saw losser as i didnt wont item"

I count at least 9 grammatical and spelling related problems with that "sentence", which is pretty impressive being that it only contains 11 words.

I don't really get Ebay, and I steer well clear of it in general. What's the point of an auction website where people can do whatever the hell they like with no enforcement, and then make *you* look the worse for it?!

Originally Posted by Gordy

I think the stupid is strong with this one

[JimmyBoy]

have you contacted support? I thought they were cracking down on people post neg feedback for stupid reasons, i.e your reason. its worth getting in touch with them mate, you have done nothing wrong!!

[unreal]

Yeah, just get in contact with eBay anyway as its worth dealing with this... bah things like this really make you lose hope in humanity sometimes lol.

[Stinga]

I really dont understand why they changed the Feedback System, so that Sellers cant leave Negative Feedback no matter what now, really stupid imo, it just lets buyers do what they want and get away with it now

[Whiternoise]

Simple way to get round it is to block people who have under X feedback - doesn't always work, but a good first defence.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Stinga

I really dont understand why they changed the Feedback System, so that Sellers cant leave Negative Feedback no matter what now, really stupid imo, it just lets buyers do what they want and get away with it now

You mean, like some sellers were doing?

There were a lot of sellers that refused to leave feedback until a buyer had already done so. So I can pay, promptly, and still have sellers that won't leave feedback until I do.

Feedback is supposed to be for people to leave feedback about the dealing with the other, not for seller to effectively blackmail the buyer into leaving positive, or risk losing their own score for the offence of leaving negative feedback if the service and/or product deserved it.

Sellers had it their own way for a long time. Now they have a motivation for actually giving good service. Of course, some will abuse it, but then, some sellers have been abusing it for long enough.

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by unreal

Yeah, just get in contact with eBay anyway as its worth dealing with this... bah things like this really make you lose hope in humanity sometimes lol.

I have requested the feedback is removed, but I'm not too hopeful.

Originally Posted by JimmyBoy

have you contacted support? I thought they were cracking down on people post neg feedback for stupid reasons, i.e your reason. its worth getting in touch with them mate, you have done nothing wrong!!

Quite, if I had messed him around I would have taken it on the chin, but it's nothing that I have done.

Originally Posted by Stinga

I really dont understand why they changed the Feedback System, so that Sellers cant leave Negative Feedback no matter what now, really stupid imo, it just lets buyers do what they want and get away with it now

They've abandoned that now haven't they as it doesn't work and was never going too.

Originally Posted by Whiternoise

Simple way to get round it is to block people who have under X feedback - doesn't always work, but a good first defence.

It doesn't cover every situation, there is block for people with non paying bidder notices, but it has to be 2 or more.

Originally Posted by Saracen

You mean, like some sellers were doing?

There were a lot of sellers that refused to leave feedback until a buyer had already done so. So I can pay, promptly, and still have sellers that won't leave feedback until I do.

Feedback is supposed to be for people to leave feedback about the dealing with the other, not for seller to effectively blackmail the buyer into leaving positive, or risk losing their own score for the offence of leaving negative feedback if the service and/or product deserved it.

Sellers had it their own way for a long time. Now they have a motivation for actually giving good service. Of course, some will abuse it, but then, some sellers have been abusing it for long enough.

Whilst I agree, I will not leave feedback until the buyer either has left me feedback or contacted me to say the item arrived safely. As you never know they may start messing you around at that point.

[snootyjim]

eBay don't protect sellers... and they don't adequately protect buyers. They don't give a monkeys as far as I'm concerned.

[transylvanic]

Originally Posted by Whiternoise

Simple way to get round it is to block people who have under X feedback - doesn't always work, but a good first defence.

Hey, I've got low feedback!

I agree that you should press ebay to remove that from your account. People only look at your positive feedback percentage, not the details of it. So you should only really have bad feedback when you deserved it

Originally Posted by Gordy

Whilst I agree, I will not leave feedback until the buyer either has left me feedback or contacted me to say the item arrived safely. As you never know they may start messing you around at that point.

Same here. I think proper etiquette is for the buyer to leave feedback first. That's the most definite confirmation of satisfaction with the transaction.

[Stinga]

Originally Posted by Saracen

You mean, like some sellers were doing?

There were a lot of sellers that refused to leave feedback until a buyer had already done so. So I can pay, promptly, and still have sellers that won't leave feedback until I do.

Feedback is supposed to be for people to leave feedback about the dealing with the other, not for seller to effectively blackmail the buyer into leaving positive, or risk losing their own score for the offence of leaving negative feedback if the service and/or product deserved it.

Sellers had it their own way for a long time. Now they have a motivation for actually giving good service. Of course, some will abuse it, but then, some sellers have been abusing it for long enough.

Yeh, I do have to agree that most sellers where abusing the Feedback System, but it would be nice for sellers to be able to leave honest Feedback on their transaction with the buyer (such as if they start messing the seller around after the auction ends etc).

But then again no one really looks at a users 'Feedback As A Buyer' as a seller isnt going to refuse a sale to a Buyer with low feedback.

[TooNice]

Originally Posted by transylvanic

Same here. I think proper etiquette is for the buyer to leave feedback first. That's the most definite confirmation of satisfaction with the transaction.

I strongly disagree. I refuse to leave a feedback until the seller has done so out of principle. The buyer already bear the risk of having to pay first so I see no reason why they should take on a further risk while the seller is protected from all sides.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by transylvanic

......

Same here. I think proper etiquette is for the buyer to leave feedback first. That's the most definite confirmation of satisfaction with the transaction.

I absolutely disagree.

If feedback is to represent the party's happiness with the performance of the other party, then the seller should be lewaving feedback if they got prompt paymemt as promised, because that is what the buyer promised .... to pay, and to do so within the terms of the sale.

It should not be contingent on the buyer being happy with the goods, because that's the seller's side.


As it is, the vast majority of sellers have it largely their own way, in that the buyer has to pay and then wait, and hope, the goods match the description, or indeed, even that they show up at all. So the buyer has to send off the money on trust, but how many sellers send of the goods on trust, before receiving the money? Precious few.

If feedback is going to be honest, it should reflect whether each party did what they agreed to do, and as a buyer, what I agreed to do is to pay. If I do, and do so promptly, I deserve feedback to reflect that, and not to only get it when the seller knows I'm not going to complain about the goods. If the goods are what was promised, and show up on time, I'm not going to leave bad feedback.

Of course, some on both sides will abuse the system. But that's a risk both parties take.
For a seller to refuse to leave feedback until the buyer does is to hold the buyer to ransom over the feedback. It's supposed to be over the transaction, and the buyer's part of the transaction is to pay on time.

If the seller keeps to his end of the bargain, and supplies goods as described, and on time, they should get positive. If they don't do that, I will explain my reasons for unhappiness with what was supplied and await their response. If the situation is resolved, they still get positive feedback. But far too many sellers weren't doing that. They weren't rating whether the buyer kept to his end and paid, but were using it as a lever to force positive feedback, or at least, avoid negative. That is not what it was supposed to be for, and presumably, why eBay changed it. If that's how it's used, it might as well not exist, because heavy sellers can absorb a hit or two, whereas negative feedback can wreck a buyer's ratings, especially if they only buy from time to time.

Not all sellers abused the system. But I'm sorry to say that so many did that they ruined it for all, and now all sellers are paying for it.

If sellers want to avoid negative feedback from reasonable people, provide a good service. Then, you'll get good feedback. And that, after all, is the point of it.

But yes, eBay need a system to react when buyers are abusing it, as certainly appears to be the case with Gordy's situation.