Not sure if any of you have seen this clip. Having sat in a lorry before I know there are a few bad blind spots but this video is very clever. I'm not sure the mirrors are correctly calibrated, according to TFL they are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzL0K...layer_embedded
Yosh (08-02-2012)
Fantastic video! Definately one to share with any cyclist friends.
Insert signature here.
OK, I know they're trying to make a point, but here's the thing:
a) you've got a big line of cyclists who are deliberately staying still and therefore are harder to see than moving cyclists - on a real road that's *very* unlikely.
b) the cab position shows the lorry is already turning - if the lorry driver hasn't checked his mirrors before getting to this point then he's doing it wrong. With that cab position the wing mirrors are pointing at the trailer so the blind spot is obviously going to be bigger.
c) the road positioning of the lorry looks very odd - if it's swinging that far to take the corner then it's obviously moving and as above should've checked mirrors before getting to that point.
d) the lorry's indicating, so if you're a cyclist and you're still undertaking him you're asking to be hit!
it's kind of useful as a piece of general information, but it looks so contrived I think it's going to get a lot of people questioning it - I'd much rather see more realistic footage.
scaryjim, I agree with some of your statements but that scenario is not unrealistic, the majority of cyclist deaths in London are because of left turning lorries.
I was unfortunate enough to see this happen last week at Bishopsgate, a coach ran over a cyclist as he was turning left. The lights were red, coach was waiting, cyclist decided to come up on the inside of the coach as the lights were changing to green, the coach driver probably checked his mirrors as he was stationery and saw nothing there, he probably checked again before he set off but the bike could have easily been in a blind spot.
Why on earth the cyclist decided to go up the inside of a coach that was signalling left, we will never know. Maybe he thought he would be seen? There wasn't a cycle lane and the gap was just wide enough to fit the handlebars from what I recall.
That scenario can happen, and it does happen, if cyclists avoided going up the inside of HGVs then they can avoid that one scenario.
I cycle and ride a motorbike, I ride defensively, I give myself room to take evasive moves if necessary, I always assume other road users have not seen me, and I always leave enough room for other road users mistakes. The most vulnerable road users should always be the most cautious IMO.
I wasn't questioning the "large thing turning left" scenario - I just think that setting up a worst-case example might be counter-productive as opposed to setting up a more realistic example with the lorry sat straight on and a couple of cyclists tucked into the blind spot. Having that many will make a lot of people dismiss it as rigged, rather than accept that it's bloody scary. I've had a couple of close shaves with buses (much bigger issue in Manchester than lorries) pulling alongside them where there *is* a cyclepath: I really can't imagine why anyone would try to shoot under a big thing that was indicating left and turning already - I can only assume either some quasi-suicidal thrill seeking or they just weren't paying attention...Originally Posted by DeludedGuy
It happens all the time- a lot of cyclists just don't give a moment's thought to their own safety.
Yesterday one of our buses was turning around outside the garage as I'd asked the driver to park it facing the other way from which he'd come. It's a 30mph limit dual carriageway with lots of gaps in the central reservation so that traffic can cross- two of these gaps are outside our garage so that buses can get in and out. It's possible to do a U-turn in one manouvre if you line up wide on the other side of the road, but this driver misjudged it a bit and needed to reverse back a couple of feet to avoid a lamppost.
A couple of cars and a van stopped behind the bus- they had to as he was blocking the road. The driver engaged reverse, which switched on the reversing light and the fairly loud reversing beeper. He checked his mirrors and started reversing slowly- at which point a cyclist popped out from behind the back end of the bus, just missing it, and shouted an oath at the driver! What a complete tool- the bus was clearly about to reverse, there could have been absolutely no doubt about what he was going to do. And yet this twonk thought that the driver, who obviously had little chance of seeing him as his cab was on the opposite side of the bus, should wait while he cycled round the back, never mind about further delaying all the vehicles stacking up on the road behind.
I shouldn't get old and bitter but TBH I really wouldn't be particularly sad to see a cyclist like that removed from the gene pool.
Quite simply, if you cycle up the inside of ANY vehicle that's indicating left at a junction you're asking for trouble- even a Smart car will do you some damage if it drives over your head. Doing it to an HGV, bus or coach is quite incredibly stupid and dangerous.
And, TBH, it's also rude and inconsiderate. That vehicle indicating left got to the junction before you did, so IMO it has the right to go ahead in its chosen direction of travel before you do. That's how queues work.
And yes, I'm an occasional cyclist, I will be cycling to work later today in fact.
pauleden (11-02-2012)
Those mirrors are NOT properly set. The wide angle mirror, the bottom one is half filled with cab body work. What use is that? Why would you look into the mirror to see the white panels of your own vehicle.
Also, the camera is held far too low. The viewpoint is so low that it's seeing the road ahead through the steering wheel.
See a quicky taken pic of the nearside mirrors on my Scania. Note that on this vehicle the wide angle mirror is above the normal one.
Also, see the fresnel lens and how it widens the view, plus the door step mirror that looks down at the footstep.
These mirrors and lens are properly adjusted (if a little grubby) and would have shown most, if not all of those cyclists.
Last edited by pauleden; 09-02-2012 at 12:18 PM.
scaryjim (10-02-2012)
That video is hugely exaggerated in every possible way, but it still proves a point. From where the driver is sitting, you can be almost impossible to see.
Pauleden, I dont doubt its a little staged, its created to make cyclists think, I'm sure they deliberately refused to add all those other mirrors just to prove a point, and lets face it, there are lorries out there which dont have all of the mirrors you have.
I cant say I know how to drive a HGV, but your Scania seems to be straightened up, whilst their lorry, the front end was turned in as if it was already turning left which is why the mirrors seem as if they are not positioned correctly, if the front end was straightened then you would have seen the cyclists in the mirror and the back end of the lorry, I think the mirrors are positioned correctly, it only looks like they are not because the front end is turning in.
You're partially right, I suspect DG. I think the film was made before the doorstep mirror was mandatory and definitely before the fresnel lens became recommended. I think they exaggerated the conditions to make the point.
Yes, my vehicle was straight, while the one in the film was already in a left hand turn, and doing that does indeed increase the size of the blind spot, but a properly adjust wide angle lens would still have seen at least some of those cyclists.
I've just looked at my picture and I'd also say that I was leaning back a little more than I would normally in the seat so when driving I'd see more road and less of my own vehicle.
The wide angle lens in that film is badly adjusted. Very badly in fact. I wouldn't drive it if I was given that vehicle. Looking in that mirror you can see the white of the tractor unit taking up half of the glass. That's just ridiculous. A mirror is there to show you the road, not the bodywork of your own vehicle.
One last thing, a good driver would often lower that window just a touch and listen. If there was a group of cyclists tucked in there, they'd often be talking and you'd hear them. Every little bit of spatial awareness helps in these situations.
Please don't get me wrong, some cyclists need educating in this matter and this film hopefully helps.
I actually have a forward looking recording video camera in my vehicle to protect myself. Car drivers occasionally to do silly things that might result in a bent panel. If a cyclist does something similar, the result is often death.
Last edited by pauleden; 09-02-2012 at 03:28 PM.
I remember something my motorcycle instructor said to me once.
If you ride a motorcycle it is not a matter of if you are going to come off but when and how bad, and when you do get clipped, irriguarless of actual blame it is always your fault. You should always assume that this guy is going to pull out in front of you or that guy has not seen you.
Hehe. In a similar vein, my instructor said, and it's stayed with ever since, 'Driving a lorry is a continuous and constant avoidance of a series of accidents'
I think the video is meant as a snapshot, rather than a real-time situation. Perhaps the lorry has started the turn and a cyclist has moved into the gap half way through the manoeuvre. They have a lot of cyclists to show the large area covered by a blind spot. It was bad enough when I was driving a van, never mind when you're sitting at van roof height in a closed off box. Rear windows in cars can make a huge difference for visibility.
More succinctly, "everyone on the road is an idiot - including you". Remember that and you'll generally do OK
You and your slanderous accusations
I'm no idiot on the road
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