Moral Dilemma

[Allen]

I posted a dilemma on FB last night which sparked a rather interesting discussion, so I am going to post the same here to see what you guys think about it.

The dilemma I am facing is this: Is it OK to listen to Lostprophets after all that has happened?

A little history, if you are unaware of what I am talking about. For a long time, I have been a fan of Lostprophets. Although I have never paid to see them live, I have a couple of their albums (Thefakesoundofprogress, Start Something, and Liberation Transmission) and used to listen to them a lot. However, in late 2012 the lead singer Ian Watkins was arrested and charged with sexual offences against children, some of which were as young as one years old. Now, this is pretty despicable stuff and so (without thinking about it) since the arrest I have not listened to any of their music.

Fast forward to yesterday, I was sitting at work and suddenly found myself after many years of not listening to them humming/whistling the music to Last Train Home. I thought to myself, I haven't heard Lostprophets in ages and without thinking about it, loaded up Youtube and searched for the song. Then it hit me, the reason why I hadn't listened to them, and that's when the question came in to my mind.

So, the long and short of it is, is it acceptable to enjoy a person or groups artistic creations when said person or group (or part of the group) is themselves morally inept.

[Terbinator]

He was one man out of the band (although I do find it odd they apparently knew nothing about it). If we stopped accessing the works of people we've cast aside throughout history - whether deemed as universally bad as this or otherwise - we'd be throwing a lot of stuff out.

The real dilemma is why you were ever listening to them

[virtuo]

I say yes it's okay, they may (or may not, I don't know) have some good music. Just because one part of the band turned out to be an utter monster doesn't change what has already been recorded, purchased, enjoyed etc.

If the question was "Would it be okay to buy the music?", then I'd say no. He doesn't deserve any royalties. But you already own them, listen away.

I notice they still play Michael Jackson a lot on the radio, and there's probably still re-runs of Animal Hospital running somewhere on TV.

Having said that, knowing what he did, even if I was a fan, I'd feel a bit weird listening to it. If it was anyone but the front-man it'd be easy enough to ignore.

[mycarsavw]

I had the same discussion when I managed to get Michael Jackson (didn't take long for him to get mentioned above!) tickets.

Enjoying the music has nothing to do with supporting the politics of one (past) member.

[KeyboardDemon]

I think listening in private/at home/office etc... would be acceptable as in such cases it is just a matter of personal tastes where you are listening to the music and not involved with the activities that the band or individuals within the band were practicing.

I think it would be different if a radio station/music channel decided to play the music though as I feel this could lead to public outrage, after all there would be royalties payed out to the individual concerned and some people might see the act of playing his music as an act of accepting his past behavior.

[Saracen]

Sometimes I feel really old.

Okay, I'll just say it. Who or what are Lostprophets, and what "happened"?

Yes, I'm serious. Never heard of it/them.

But it's okay, don't bother to explain. I'm not really that interested in modern music. Well, not in the slightest interested really.

[Dooms]

Sometimes I feel really old.

Okay, I'll just say it. Who or what are Lostprophets, and what "happened"?

Yes, I'm serious. Never heard of it/them.

But it's okay, don't bother to explain. I'm not really that interested in modern music. Well, not in the slightest interested really.

But he did explain.

Question is if Lost Prophets aren't acceptable to listen to why is Michael Jackson?

[mycarsavw]

Sometimes I feel really old.

Okay, I'll just say it. Who or what are Lostprophets, and what "happened"?

They are a Welsh 'rock' band.

The lead singer had an extremely nasty habit, probably best if you have a read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lostprophets - it's not pretty though.

It would appear they're still trying to carry on too.

[Galant]

But he did explain.

Question is if Lost Prophets aren't acceptable to listen to why is Michael Jackson?

Not exactly. Question is if the Lost Prophets are acceptable to listen to even though the lead singer was convicted of horrific child abuse.

Or in his own words,

So, the long and short of it is, is it acceptable to enjoy a person or groups artistic creations when said person or group (or part of the group) is themselves morally inept.

One difference with Michael Jackson is that he was found not guilty of all charges.

[Ttaskmaster]

He still gets royalties while in prison?
I'd have thought they'd be taken off him and given to charity/government funding, or something...

[Allen]

Sometimes I feel really old.

Okay, I'll just say it. Who or what are Lostprophets, and what "happened"?

Yes, I'm serious. Never heard of it/them.

But it's okay, don't bother to explain. I'm not really that interested in modern music. Well, not in the slightest interested really.

However, in late 2012 the lead singer Ian Watkins was arrested and charged with sexual offences against children, some of which were as young as one years old.

There is more info on their wiki page though. Basically, they are a band, I liked their music, the lead singer is now in jail on a very, very long sentence for pedophilia offences. Is it OK to still listen to the bands music?

And whether you are interested in their music or not, I still posed an open question regarding any artist and their creations.

[Galant]

How about this - in this scenario, if possible, would you go to see them live? If not, why not, and how would that be different from listening to their albums?

Additionally, might it make a difference depending upon whether the album was written before or after the bad events took place?

I think this is a question that strongly depends on the scenario and on the person.

On the one hand, if it's a band, there are other members who contributed. On the other hand, that doesn't detract from contribution of the abusing individual.

If said individual gets paid for album purchases, that would seem to play into the question.

Depending upon the abuse/crime, if a person serves a sentence, do you return to their music once "their debt to society has been paid"?

[Saracen]

But he did explain.

Question is if Lost Prophets aren't acceptable to listen to why is Michael Jackson?

But not with enough info for me to venture much of an opinion.

But, here goes.

Jackson was, undoubtedly, strange. When you consider the extent of his fame, and the age is started at, it'd be strange if he wasn't a bit strange. But that sort of background is pretty much a one-off. It'd be pretty astonishing if he didn't have problems meeting social and emotional norms.

I'd also point out that despite allegations, media hype and so on, Jackson went through a full and extensive trial and was acquited on ALL charges.

So, what was he? Child abuser? Emotionally stunt victim, and extremely lonely? Victim of extortion attempt? I don't know. But whatever, he was tried and cleared.

As for this guy from Lostprophets, I gather he's been charged? Well, so was Jackson. Then acquited. With this bloke, time will tell. But, how often do we hear Gary Glitter's music played these days? Of course, maybe that's because it just wasn't very good.

Finally, comparing Jackson and Lostprophets. Hmmm. Jackson is a phenomenon at the top of his art for, what, about 4 decades. It's hard to think of more iconic artists, musically. And the older generation grew up with Jackson as a major star, pretty much all their lives. Lostprophets? Well, quite seriously, I'd never heard of them. Now granted, I don't claim to be "hip with the kids" (unlike certain politicians seem to think it makes them look good) but I'd still suggest that there's a difference between Jackson and Lostprophets.

Finally, personally, if you like the music, then I don't see that liking it or listening to it involves any sort of endorsement of anything in their personal lives. So if you like it, listen to it. If he ends up convicted, then reassess if you feel it right to do so.

[Saracen]

They are a Welsh 'rock' band.

The lead singer had an extremely nasty habit, probably best if you have a read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lostprophets - it's not pretty though.

It would appear they're still trying to carry on too.

Thanks. I think that tells me as much as I want to know about what he apparently did, or from posts appearing while I wrote my last one, has been convicted of doing. I think I can do without further details of what he did.

On listening .... I like Bach. I've listened to it for decades, and enjoy his work, without knowing almost anything about his personal life. If it turned out he had unpleasant or criminal aspects, would it affect the music, in ANY way, if I found out now?

So ... if I liked LP, would I continue to listen? Yes. Because me listening to music I like is not me endorsing his child abuse. But would I buy any more or go to concerts? Not if it put money in the pocket of a paedophile, no.

[peterb]

e is an alternative point of view - just because the messenger is flawed, does it it invalidate the message
The lead singer might be a convicted criminal, but he wasn't using his music to promote paedophilia (as far as I am aware). So I don't see a problem in that sense.

On the other hand, you may feel that buying his music is paying him, so you might no wish to purchase any more, or you might think that the sound of his voice reminds you of what he has done, which detracts from your listening pleasure.

[peterb]

e is an alternative point of view - just because the messenger is flawed, does it it invalidate the message
The lead singer might be a convicted criminal, but he wasn't using his music to promote paedophilia (as far as I am aware). So I don't see a problem in that sense.

On the other hand, you may feel that buying his music is paying him, so you might no wish to purchase any more, or you might think that the sound of his voice reminds you of what he has done, which detracts from your enjoyment of the music.

But the fact that you might enjoy the music doesn't mean that you endorse his actions in his private life..