Feminists, "The Friend Zone" etc.

[TooNice]

Looking at the Vintage Sexist Adverts I am glad to say that we have moved forward since those adverts were made. Things are certainly not perfect, but change takes time. But I have recently seen on my FB, a number of posts referring to (feminists?) articles that make me go from "I believe men and women should be treated as equally as practical" to "Wow. Can you be any more patronising, condescending and insulting to my intelligence?". Are those articles supposed to sway the way we think in a way that benefits them? Because it is not working for me. Some of the articles are allegedly written by guys, but you know what? It does not add to the credibility especially with the ways they are written. You may have seen the error of your ways, but don't go assuming that we all made the same mistake and need to change. Heck, I wonder if some of those articles' real purpose isn't to undermine the feminists movements by enraging the other half the population. At least until I note that a fair number of guys on FB do seem to agree with the posts. For most part, I stay quiet, it would take too long to break down the flaws of every point of an article, and failing to carefully argue the point may make me come across as a women hater or something. Heck, one of the article I seem to remember told me to "Shut up" if I have anything to say.

This is something that I've noticed popping up on my FB for the last few months, and I'd say that most article could be discussed in a separate thread, but the above generally describes my feelings.

The latest one though was on the subject of the "Friend zone". Now, I admit, given the number of male supporters the poster had, perhaps I do have it wrong. To me, it is no more than the phenomenon where one person gets rejected by another because there are seen as "Just a (good) friend". And to me, the phenomenon is given the name because of how common it is, and the belief that there is usually no way "cross over" to the "Romantic interest zone". I view the phenomenon as natural, can happen to either gender.

And yet.. the term is apparently sexist and some people think the term should stopped being used. Those who use it are apparently have a sense of entitlement issue because apparently, you would only use it if you are one of those who "expect" a relationship for being nice (when everyone over the age of 8 knows that life isn't fair) or who go on badmouthing women after being rejected (that problem isn't borne from the term, won't go away if you ban the term, and the term need not even be used by those people exclusively). I also remember one guy arguing there is no reason for feeling bad for being friend-zoned if the friendship was "real" in the first place.

Just Google "Friend zone sexist" and you will find a dozen of articles criticising the term. But in the end, I still don't get it. To me, the criticisms tie too many assumptions. The contents of the articles do not vary much so if you have time to check any one of them and let me know if you think the points are generally sound.

[Moby-Dick]

have you ever heard of the ladder theory ?

[TooNice]

Indeed I have. It might even be the first instance I heard about the "Friend zone" terminology. While I am not sold on the complete model, I do think there is some truth those who successfully go move from one ladder to the next is more of an exception than the rule. But the thing I do not get, is why some people have an issue with the "Friend zone" terminology.

Looking at *randomly Google* - this blog entry - http://stavvers.wordpress.com/2013/0...al-entitlement and it pretty much repeat what dozens of other sites are claiming.

I have more issues than I care to write, but I will summarise as follow:

1. Guys aren't the only people who get friend-zoned. As per my definition. I've told girls that I just want to be their friend. As far as I am concerned, the person in question got friend-zoned. I don't think that I've done anything wrong, and some take it better than others. Sometime they are cool with it, sometime they want to cut all contact. I am fine either way, because both a romantic relationship and friendship works by mutual agreement, and if one party is unhappy then they don't have to force themselves. My offering for friendship is not a genuine gesture, but not an honour. And vice-versa.

2. Those articles often talk about guys who go on to complain about women wasting their times etc. Silly thing to do, but what has that got anything to do with the "friend zone" terminology? Getting ahead of yourself and expecting the girl to say yes is obviously a recipe for disaster unless you are some kind of Don Juan. You can get friend-zoned and blame no one else but yourself. Not good for personal self-esteem but it's not hurting anyone but oneself. It's certainly not hurting the person who turned you down.

3. So, the person decides to cut away from your life after being rejected. Just as it is your right to reject, it is also that person's right to walk away. If friendship is of the same value as a relationship (and I have seen people say that on FB), then surely the same rules apply. That is, you should not expect it just because you have been so nice to the person.

The only way I can be convinced that the terminology is damaging, is if the definition exclusively refers to those who bad mouth the person who turn them down. But even so, such behaviour will not go away if the term go away.

[Rave]

I've read your post carefully, and I still can't figure out what you're complaining about.

[wasabi]

IMO the term is one of those annoying internet memes that plague otherwise funny FB humour pages that I follow. Bit like that stupid doge or that weird badly drawn head sociopath thing.

[TooNice]

I've read your post carefully, and I still can't figure out what you're complaining about.

In short, I do not get why the term is taboo in certain circles. If it was the opinion of one person, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, but when a quick Google reveals many pages making similar points, it made me think, yet I simply couldn't accept the arguments.

[DanceswithUnix]

In short, I do not get why the term is taboo in certain circles. If it was the opinion of one person, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, but when a quick Google reveals many pages making similar points, it made me think, yet I simply couldn't accept the arguments.

In the average case, men and women think differently. Some people get really worked up about what falls out of that, and for all sorts of reasons. Sounds like you aren't one of those so I would say all is fine just leave them to it.

I think if life wasn't complicated it wouldn't be as much fun

[Dareos]

Feminism is great. I love feminism but its moving too slowly. I reckon that in order to sort it out faster we should get men to run it, women are just too busy having babies and cooking to handle it.

(Stolen from Carey Marx and yes its a joke!)