Israel/Gaza Conflict

[j1979]

If I have my history correct;

The Palestinians were in what is now Israel/Gaza/Westbank being ruled by the Ottomans. The British promised the Palestinians independence if they helped us against the Ottomans during WWI. A few years later we promised the same land to the Jews. After the Ottoman empire fell, the British ruled Palestine (aka British Mandate), trying to keep our promise to both ethnic groups. We tried to control Jewish immigration into Palestine but weren't very successful. There was large scale unrest over our rule, both ethnicities felt they were the sole owner of the land. There were extremists on both sides attacking each other and attacking the British. After the King David Hotel bombing by a Jewish terrorist group, the British Mandate became so unpopular with the British public that we pulled out in 1948. The UN tried to get involved and proposed partition (a two state solution) but the Palestinians refused the plan. The Palestinians and the Jews went to war, the Palestinians lost, and thus Israel was born in 1948.

I don't know about the Jewish claim to Israel before the 20th century.

Well, it's biblical !



Kingdom of Israel / Judah was founded between 1030 -1010 BC



That bit on the map called Philistia (Palestine) contains modern day Gaza.

According to history (biblical and other sources), Jerusalem was sacked by the Babylonians 586 BC, and the Jews were displaced / enslaved. They returned and were again displaced / and half a million massacred by the Romans in 135 AD after the Bar Kokhba revolt along with the very early Christians. Then the Muslims conquered all of the Levant in the 7th century AD followed by the Christian crusaders, Mongols, Ottomans, Egyptians and retook by the Ottomans with British help.

[drone567]

Great video,(no doubt simplified, but hell I don't want every tribal conflict!) I tried to read up on Jewish history, but it seemed every nation that bordered their homelands, had invaded the original tribes, killed and enslaved them(after alot of negotiation!). So they left through Egypt. As with all mass migrations there's positives, and negatives. I think Palastinians(and all other groups in area), need to accept that Isreal exists, so just accept it, and coexist in peace. Get some 'reparation' if possible!

[OilSheikh]

Looking at Wikipedia,
Was under Ottoman rule from 1516 to 1918
British conquered from Ottomans after WW1 and tried to establish this area as a country for the Jews, but only 11% of the people at that time in this region were Jews. Meanwhile, Jews from everywhere had been immigrating for quite a while.
In 1947, British ran away
1948, Jews establish country of Israel
Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi and Iraq attacked in 1948 Arab-Israeli war
Ceasefire after 1 year and Jordan took West bank, Egypt took Gaza.
Israel brought in 1 million Jews
1950 - Palestinians first start attacking Israel
1956 - Egypt nationalized Suez canal and closed it off to Israel. Israel attaccked with British and French support and invaded Sinai peninsua and then later left under UN pressure
1967 - Egypt again closed of Suez to Israel and Israeli air force then launched surprise attacks on Arab air forces and destroyed them. Israel also invaded Golan heights
US made various Araba countries sign peace agreemtns with Israel
Israel even invaded Lebanon in 1982

[j1979]

^^ Or you can look at this Israeli point of view ^^

[OilSheikh]

^^ Or you can look at this Israeli point of view ^^

What ? A biased Youtube video ? There are plenty of these on Youtube. All try to show Israel as the victim

[j1979]

What ? A biased Youtube video ? There are plenty of these on Youtube. All try to show Israel as the victim

Yet factually accurate.

[TheAnimus]

Whilst that video has some correct points, it misses the bigger issue.

That many in Palestine are not happy with the status quo, that there have been incursions into land by Israeli settlers.

However, there are many who seem to justify any action against Israelis as fine and valid, hell this thread on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdo...goad_galloway/ is worrying enough.

[j1979]

Whilst that video has some correct points, it misses the bigger issue.

That many in Palestine are not happy with the status quo, that there have been incursions into land by Israeli settlers.

However, there are many who seem to justify any action against Israelis as fine and valid, hell this thread on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdo...goad_galloway/ is worrying enough.

Yes it does miss some big issues, but if you fill in the gaps it's still a question of the right for the state to exist. And if pre-1967 borders were offered by Israel (which they won't) would Hamas disappear? I doubt it.

If the shoe where on the other foot and Hamas were backed by a power stronger than the US, every Israeli would be in far more danger than a Palestinian is in the current status quo.

[drone567]

It interesting if you think that, thousands of years ago the Jewish tribes were being attacked from all sides, they didn't have the power to resist, and left. They amassed the ideas of all the countries the were exiled to, worked hard and created wealth, and begat a network of support in all those countries. Then returned, with the power to resist. You have to admire their resolve.

[OilSheikh]

As long as US and us continue to support Israel, there will be no peace till Judgement day!

What resulted in today's situation? Mass immigration of jews into an Arab area and the Jews then became the Boss whereas the Arabs were turned into refugees.
(Imagine GB becoming the United Kingdom of East Europe )

Israel could give back Gaza to Egypt and West Bank to Jordan or give back West bank to Jordan and grant independence to Gaza to become country of Palestine. But, for some obscure reason, they have decided to do neither of these

[kalniel]

As long as US and us continue to support Israel, there will be no peace till Judgement day!

That's only the case if you're saying peace can't happen while Israel exists. Otherwise support should not be an issue.

What resulted in today's situation? Mass immigration of jews into an Arab area and the Jews then became the Boss whereas the Arabs were turned into refugees.

Nope, read the rest of the thread.

Israel could give back Gaza to Egypt and West Bank to Jordan or give back West bank to Jordan and grant independence to Gaza to become country of Palestine. But, for some obscure reason, they have decided to do neither of these

The obscure reason is every time they do, they get attacked more. I'm not saying I agree with occupation at all, however they feel it is necessary because of the hostile intent towards them.

[OilSheikh]

That's only the case if you're saying peace can't happen while Israel exists. Otherwise support should not be an issue.

I read somewhere on Wiki that initially there were both Arab Muslims and Jews living together. It all changed when the Jews decided to have the country for themselves.

[j1979]

I read somewhere on Wiki that initially there were both Arab Muslims and Jews living together. It all changed when the Jews decided to have the country for themselves.

They didn't decide to have the country for themselves. The boarder for Israel and Palestine was set out in 1947. The Palestinians and the Arab states attacked Israel as they can't abide the idea of a non Muslim state in the middle east. As has always been the case. They can't cope with the fact 0.5% of the middle east is for the Jews and 99.5% is Muslim.

The alternative was to have Jews living in a Muslim state. I know what happens to non-muslims in a Muslim state. At best they are seen as second class, and in some places they are treated like the copts in Egypt or the Kurds in Iraq, and for some minorities an even worse fate.



So Israel need to be accepted and allowed to exist in the middle east before peace will be achieved. But until people like yourself are willing to utter the words "I accept Israel's right to exist" there can be no peace.

Same as if the Kurds, get there own state, you will never accept it, even though they are Kurdish in the lands of their ancestors.

Acceptance is key. Accept minorities and accept they are worthy of there own state should they wish it and peace will follow. After all there is no point fighting, as proven time and time again the Israelis are no push over.

[elgnid0]

I know what I want and that is a strong leader like Benjamin!!.
All the no marks like barroness morsi and co are really hurt that their are not many more
Iraelis killed.
The Hammas leadership love people to be martyrs and most thinking people know this.
Life means nothing to them in fact why their god produced them in the first place is a mystery to me.
We in the west keep self flagilating while heads roll,well I for one think Palestians who take their sons to
shoot Israelis as opposed to fishing deserve to be shot for allowing their children to be a part of hate.
Im shocked by the world marches against Israel,as it seems lots are just cowardly spouting the right stuff to keep bombs at bay.
We need to wake up and smell the religion that has no beginning and lots of end.
Anarchy surounds the Muslim religion like no other.
Ask yourself one question,what other faith feeds off convertion and why do they insist on forcing or coercing others rather than living alongside them in peace.

How on earth Israelis could hope to go against 29 other Arab states just because they want a place of their own
is so rediculous its a none starter.
Lets be fair! from the day arab children are born they are told about the jews just like hitlers mob.
They recite anti semitism and are applauded according to their age(the younger the louder the applause!).

All I want is for UN observers to say "yay or nay" as to who broke the ceasefires.
Its as easy as that!.
Why do I think this does not happen!, well I beleive that the west is scared of getting on the wrong side of
people who care little about getting killed.
In truth! I think most people are cowards and bleat all day about various conflicts,but! soon you will feel like that reporter! and feel the extreme heat of hate which at the moment is a very distant thought!!,you will learn.

[Jonj1611]

Please use the edit button rather than create lots of new posts

[j1979]

I know what I want and that is a strong leader like Benjamin!!.
All the no marks like barroness morsi and co are really hurt that their are not many more
Iraelis killed.
The Hammas leadership love people to be martyrs and most thinking people know this.
Life means nothing to them in fact why their god produced them in the first place is a mystery to me.
We in the west keep self flagilating while heads roll,well I for one think Palestians who take their sons to
shoot Israelis as opposed to fishing deserve to be shot for allowing their children to be a part of hate.
Im shocked by the world marches against Israel,as it seems lots are just cowardly spouting the right stuff to keep bombs at bay.
We need to wake up and smell the religion that has no beginning and lots of end.
Anarchy surounds the Muslim religion like no other.
Ask yourself one question,what other faith feeds off convertion and why do they insist on forcing or coercing others rather than living alongside them in peace.

How on earth Israelis could hope to go against 29 other Arab states just because they want a place of their own
is so rediculous its a none starter.
Lets be fair! from the day arab children are born they are told about the jews just like hitlers mob.
They recite anti semitism and are applauded according to their age(the younger the louder the applause!).

All I want is for UN observers to say "yay or nay" as to who broke the ceasefires.
Its as easy as that!.
Why do I think this does not happen!, well I beleive that the west is scared of getting on the wrong side of
people who care little about getting killed.
In truth! I think most people are cowards and bleat all day about various conflicts,but! soon you will feel like that reporter! and feel the extreme heat of hate which at the moment is a very distant thought!!,you will learn.

Welcome to the forum. I agree with all of what you said there, and it's so refreshing to hear someone say what they feel on a subject they are passionate about.


One thing some people seem to criticize is the British Mandate for Palestine. Yet what people often forget is, the horrors that the dissolving ottoman empire did to it's minorities. There were a 100,000 Jews is Palestine in 1915, and by 1947 both Muslim and Jewish immigration to Palestine was on par at about 1/2 a million.

If there was not a Jewish state then the Muslims would have done the same to the Jews as they did to the Armenians Christians.


Ottoman Turk, teasing starving Armenian children with bread.




Depiction of Armenian girls suffering crucifixion
http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-conte.../04/armen1.jpg