UK aircraft carriers WILL come into service

[Zak33]

Thank all that's righteous for that

THE PRINCE OF WALES will be finished and will hit the oceans

( no jokes about having no planes to fly from it....one step at a time)

Looks like IS and Mr Putin between them along with global unrest has made what was apparent to many other people...now acceptable in public....

That defense spending is actually quite important.

Cameron guarantees future of carrier http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307

[peterb]

It is very welcome news, but...

It won't be launched until 2017 (and there is nothing to stop a future government reversing that decision). There is also the question of manning, given the run down of the Royal Navy (together with the other armed services), so my concern would be on what will be given up to enable use of these vessels.

Carrier operations do not just need the carrier operating in isolation. They need support vessels to form a carrier group for maximum operational effectiveness.

And neither carrier will be fully operational until 2023, which is appalling.

But it is good news, both for National security (as an island nation, we rely on sea transport for the majority of our imports) and for those who work in the defence and defence support industries and the UK industrial and manufacturing base.

[SUMMONER]

Why bother, apparently the French have 2 spare heli carriers going cheap.

[peterb]

Why bother, apparently the French have 2 spare heli carriers going cheap.

We already have helicopter assault ships. The new carriers will provide fixed wing strike capability.

[SUMMONER]

Surely those fancy new VTAL jets don't need a running start (or do they when fully loaded?) and can easily be deployed off a heli carrier?

[Lucio]

If we dig down the back of the sofa a bit, maybe we can find the money for some actually finished ships that the French will be keen to get rid of



EDIT: Oopps, not paying attention here!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If we dig down the back of the sofa a bit, maybe we can find the money for some actually finished ships that the French will be keen to get rid of



EDIT: Oopps, not paying attention here!

We cannot even afford a full wing of F35 fighters for the first carrier since the price per aircraft has skyrocketed,and with the cutbacks in the rest of the fleet to try and negate the cost of the carriers,it makes me wonder whether buying the second carrier was done for reasons other than for defence. Even the French have decided against buying a second carrier now,and it was meant to be of the same type we are buying.

I also wonder what other parts of the economy we can cut spending on now,or whether we can just get further into debt. I feel sorry for the generations after us.

Edit!!

Even at the height of the cold war,the Uk government scrapped the CVA-01 programme and replaced them with light carriers and that was when the Soviet/Russian threat was FAR bigger and the latter were FAR more militarily capable.

Plus they actually had a credible navy which was not a whole lot of rusting hulks.

Yet we obviously need them now. Obviously 12 F35s,maybe 24 if we are lucky are going to make such a huge difference.

Plus with IS and the like how is a few aircraft going to make a huge difference,if there is no credible force on the ground?

The Taliban were not defeated by air power alone. The Vietnamese were not defeated by air power alone. Not even the Serbians were defeated by air power alone.

I could even understand if we had an EU armed forces where we could pool funds and actually build a fair number of carriers and actually have a decently sized air arms like the US carriers do. But we don't so the ships might be very impressive looking and all that,but I suspect we will still piggy back on US carrier fleets anyway.

[peterb]

Surely those fancy new VTAL jets don't need a running start (or do they when fully loaded?) and can easily be deployed off a heli carrier?

Vertical take off takes a lot of fuel - a running take off (and landing) is far more efficient, and an assisted launch from a runway with a ramp (and/or with the assistance of a catapult) is even more efficient.

And as Cat-the-fifth referred to, they provide a platform for other interoperable aircraft, even if they aren't carrying their own organic aircraft.

Plus they actually had a credible navy which was not a whole lot of rusting hulks.

Which we don't have.

The ships we have in service are fine and very capable. We just don't have enough of them.

[Zak33]

but I suspect we will still piggy back on US carrier fleets anyway.

and that's not a bad thing, and having one additional UK carrier with the US fleet will make THEIR job better too.

We need to be able to sail to the other side of the world and launch aircraft.

simple as that

one air craft, managed well with good skills on deck and in the air, is worthy of a ferocious amount of land warfare.

Sea Harrier shouldn't have been scrapped but we are where we are and now we at least have a plan to continue with something that floats that can carry something with wings.

and it'll be made here

[Zak33]

I think the US have 10 working and 3 more being commissioned.

to add 2 to 13 is a large increase.

If someone offered you 16% more of something you'd consider it.

Besides.... the UK naval air power potential is still important. You cant land IN the desserty but you can land in the seat next to that country.

Ditto mountains/jungle etc

[MrComputerSaint]

Wont have aircraft for the carriers till 2023? that's a joke!

I bet they'd never get the funding for an I-400
http://www.operationstormbook.com/di...iagram%20D.jpg

Can anyone else see the US leasing aircraft carriers to the rest of the world? Or to their allies ?

[HalloweenJack]

Been reading something about this -


it seems the USA wants to step down 1 CBG (or whatever they are called this week) , in the Atlantic , and with the brits having a proper carrier (yes a STOVL one , but still a proper one) - Prince of Wales or Queen Elizabeth could act in the role of the 11th CBG (with US support assets).


biggest thing will be if they actually vut the steel - no british warship has ever been cancelled once the first steel has been cut - and david baboon wont go against the old boys.


as for USA carrier force - they have 10 operational with 3 more being built

the CVN-78 is undergoing sea trials , the CVN-79 , her first steel has been cut and the CVN-80 is in planning.


the Nimitz (CVN-68) will retire when CVN-79 is commissioned.

[Galant]

I'm about bloomin' up to here with the F-35's. Should have been scrapped long ago. I'm not sure where we're at economically but if it's feasible I'd be fine with dropping out entirely and looking at something else, UK, joint with US or whatever.

We could even set up a crowd source to help fund that new Japanese fighter. We're all driving Toyota's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's, Hondas, Mazda's, Acura's and Subaru's after all.

As for the carrier, go for it. And yes, go for all the support ships as well and get the Navy back where it should be.

Do they take four-eyed 34 year olds?