Unofficial punishment - Right or wrong?

[Hoonigan]

I was reading this article last night, which was brought to my attention on Facebook; it got me thinking - Is it a good or a bad thing that inmates are taking these matters into their own hands?

In my opinion, there isn't a punishment strong enough for rapists/paedophiles. They should be castrated and be given much heavier sentences. I personally think it's amazing what they've done, and I hope he suffered hugely, because of the selfish behaviour he displayed while abusing that 13 year old girl.

I've heard of other cases similar to this and often love to read them, but what are the thoughts of Hexus? Should this be left to the justice system or are these inmates doing us a favour by discouraging such acts?

[Rob_B]

Well the sentence seemed very light in the first place, and although murder is murder you can't help think some people deserve it more than others.

If it was my daughter he'd done that to I'd be sending that pair a carton of ciggies each at the very least.

[wasabi]

Having convicted criminals making moral judgements then being judge, jury and executioner on others cannot be right. i.e. it is a right they forfeited for being there.

Before someone thinks I'm particularly soft on them - personally I'd have short custodial sentence (relative to the violence of the crimes) plus compulsory chemical castration or death penalty.

[Lucio]

Yes, the victim's crime was horrific and is rightly condemmed, but you cannot justify another crime on the basis that "they deserved it", it's just plain wrong and a complete failure in the prison's duty of care that this was allowed to happen and I hope that not only the perpertrators are justly punished, but the guards who allowed this to happen are also bought up on appropriate sanctions.

If you start justifying barbaric behaviour on those grounds, you may as well surrender the rule of law entirely, because you'll have lost all moral weight behind it in the first place and are moving back to "might makes right"

I'd far rather live in a country where occasionally, someone gets off lightly or entirely for a horrific crime, than live in one where everyone is forced into acceptable behaviour by fear of horrific sanctions.

[peterb]

As Lucio says - short answer is that trial and punishment is the sole responsibility of the criminal justice system after considering all the know facts which have been established in a court of law, not by a vigilante group informed by ill-informed untested comment on social media.

[Rob_B]

And this guy was found guilty by said system, as much as I'd like to act like I'm appalled, if I put myself in the shoes of a parent who's child was subject to scum like this then I don't see myself being so lenient.

I agree it's not for other offenders to dish out punishment but seeing as this particular case has already happened I'm struggling to find any sympathy.

[badass]

It's not right at all. But no sympathy for the victim TBH.
Perhaps the public sympathy for convicted criminals might be a little better if the criminal justice system wasn't full of apologists for subhuman scum.

[Agent]

In my opinion, there isn't a punishment strong enough for rapists/paedophiles.

The problem is that it's a psychiatric disorder. A very serious one.

You can be a paedophile without acting out your thoughts and desires - it's a state of mind, like other psychiatric disorders.

The worst part of it is that it's treatable (See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10...e-illness.html), but people are too scared to come forward and ask for help. The sex offenders register is often one of the first points of call, even in cases where no offense has been committed. You probably can't see your kids if you have them, and if the general public finds out....you're dealing with vigilantes at each turn, like the ones above. This is not what a civilised society needs - thugs taking out action on people with mental difficulties.

A real issue here is the perception of paedophillia, as a mental illness. No one wakes up in the morning as a paedophile and goes looking for children. It's as complex as any other mental disorder out there.

If it was Anorexia, the support would be there in an instant from friends and family. The same for being Bipolar. Yet many of these mental issues have very close links to each other.

Paedophilia needs to be accepted as a mental illness and treated before it reaches the point in a person where they will cause harm to someone. If that happens, then as horrendous as the crime is (I honestly think it's one of the single worst things a child / parents / family could go through), then people need to start waking up to the harsh, cold reality of that person being in a situation where they are unlikely to be able to stop themselves and a nonce bashing not being the solution. Much like someone suffering from depression having an irresistible urge to commit suicide, and often doing so.

We need to start treating the symptoms sooner, so society is picking up less of the aftermath of the tragic outcome when we don't.

[Saracen]

In answer to the primary question, right or wrong, it's wrong. Understandable, but wrong.

I'm not exactly of the bleeding-heart 'liberal' orientation when it comes to crime and punishment, as repeated death sentence threads will amply attest. That's point 1. Point 2 is that, assuming he actually was guilty and it sure seems that way, then I have no sympathy for the 'victim'. Instead, I'd reserve sympathy for his victim(s), and also for the possibility that his untimely shuffling off this mortal coil just might have saved other young girls from assaults at his hands, when/if he got out of prison which, with a four year sentence/tariff, he presumably would have.

So, presuming his guilt was unequivocal and absolurely certain, then personally I don't care if he was castrated with a couple of bricks, then given a long drop on a short rope. But it MUST be done via due process ... which, clearly, it won't be. While I might find that regrettable, and the sentence a disgrace for his offence, we can't allow vigilante justice. That way lies anarchy.

So .... it's wrong. Unfortunately.

[Galant]

Yeah, it's wrong. The justice system is also wrong in places, messed up, but it's still the right way to do things.

[Galant]

Thought occurred to me today. A society's justice system might provide something of an insight to it's wider perspective and direction as regards the general treatment of its citizens. You may have heard the statement that one can judge a society by how it treats its weakest or most vulnerable members - or that person's character can be judged by how he or she treats those who cannot give them anything. In the same way, perhaps even more so, might we not consider how a society treats those it has an reason (or 'excuse') to treat differently or more 'poorly'?

Criminals are those in society who are considered worthy of some sort of punishment or, one might say, treatment that society wouldn't normally permit.

Might the 'freedom' that comes with the judicial permission for special treatment of an individual - or how we handle such individuals - give us an insight into how a society more deeply or truly views its citizens?

Societies which truly believe in and uphold certain values such as human rights or the value of human life can be expected to see that through in every aspect and area of its existence. Might not any cracks in the framework, or changes to it, be first or most easily viewed in how a society treats its criminals, as well as (if not more than) it's weak or vulnerable (but guiltless)?

[JackBeePee]

I have to agree with Agent. Paedophiles don't deserve death, and it is definitely not down to some prisoners to decide if they do. It is a mental illness - and, yes, we should make it absolutely certain they cannot/will not act on their desires, but death is not the solution to that problem.

[Rob_B]

....we should make it absolutely certain they cannot/will not act on their desires....

And therein lies the problem...this guy certainly isn't going to do it again though

As I mentioned, I'm a parent, and I'm certain a good chunk of other parents would disagree with me but if this guy did that to my kid, and you put me in a room with him then at the very least he'd be eating through a straw the rest of his life if not worse.

[RobbieRoy]

I just want to endorse what Lucio, peterb and Agent have wisely said.

[Macman]

I'm sorry. Rapists. Murderers etc should all be given the death penalty.

I don't care what anyone says, if they commit the crime and they are PROVEN guilty then lethal injection.

Even if you want to use the argument that it's a mental illness... One could argue that the rapist WAS fully aware of what he was doing and he chose to do it because he enjoyed doing it. But if caught he will plead the whole Mental Health issues etc.

I'm sorry but proven guilty, lethal injection. Maybe then those who genuinely suffer from it decide to speak up and get the help but until then the government needs to make a tougher stand on this barbaric act.

[Agent]

I'm sorry. Rapists. Murderers etc should all be given the death penalty.

I don't care what anyone says, if they commit the crime and they are PROVEN guilty then lethal injection.

There have been many cases where someone has been 'proven' guilty, only for this to be overturned. Many examples of miscarriages of justice can be found from almost any time period.

This is a problem, because you can't unkill someone.

Even if you want to use the argument that it's a mental illness... One could argue that the rapist WAS fully aware of what he was doing and he chose to do it because he enjoyed doing it. But if caught he will plead the whole Mental Health issues etc.

Being fully aware does not mean you're not mentally ill. If someone does it because they 'enjoy' it, isn't that a pretty good example of a mental illness in its own right?

I'm sorry but proven guilty, lethal injection. Maybe then those who genuinely suffer from it decide to speak up and get the help but until then the government needs to make a tougher stand on this barbaric act.

Well, if you can give us a way of convicting people with 100% accuracy, then we can deal with irreversible consequences. Until then, it's a moot point.