Do companies just generally suck now?

[Sibbs10]

I've noticed over the past 12 months that customer service is the "in" thing, boasted by every company large and small but so far my experiences show it's more for attracting new customers than dealing with customer service.

I'm not talking about the general service of exchange i.e. you pay for your goods and receive them. I mean service when it comes to after care, returns, support, etc.

I've experienced multi-national, national and local companies customer service and it's not up to scratch. One franchise told me to be lumped with an order for something I intend to keep for years, after using social media they changed their tune - why?? I only asked for fair dealings nothing more. Another experience recently was a national Garage door company, it's been hell with them and they keep messing up, again through social media pressure they're now recognising I am a human being...but still mess up.

I could keep going on if you want more examples but.. is it just me? My analysis so far is that everyone is stretched as well as stressed, so it's worthwhile attracting new customers and accepting old customers may never return.

Or..perhaps I overthink things and should accept this level of service. Everyone is eager to grab your money but once the simple process fails (take money - give product) no one is bothered.

[peterb]

There is an old saying that it costs about 4 times as much to get a new customer than it does to retain an existing one.

I'm not convinced that is still true in the retail sector because of online sales.

But customer service is an expensive overhead and that ends up on the bottom line and is paid by the customer, so when margins are tight, CS can be one of the areas to cut costs.

Of course, if the product is high quality with good design and the mfr has good quality control, the the overhead on CS is lowered for the retailer, fewer returns etc - but then those products might be more expensive anyway.

Large companies have the advantage afforded by economies of scale. Amazon are a good example with their returns process - but you' be hard pushed to actually talk to a CS person.

[sammyc]

Some of it comes of companies that are bigger than their ability to keep a grip of their customer service nuts & bolts. Most of my gripe comes from contacting customer services with product queries where a) they clearly haven't read your email properly and therefore b) they equally clearly think you are stupid for not reading the FAQ properly; and if they do understand your question, they either don't know the answer or have a way to access the info, or they give you incorrect info. Recent examples:

1. Trying to download a persistently faulty file from [well known music download site], having been told 3 times leave it with them and they will fix the problem. Went on to contact the source company of the file to let them know their product seems to be permanently unavailable from [] and is it available from them in any other way? Answer: 'You can download this item from [original site]'. Re-contact them to repeat that that wasn't what I asked. Automated reply and nothing further, as clearly this query has been dealt with satisfactorily and I'm just not listening.

2. Contact firm to ask why a particular product isn't suitable for vegetarians. Email to say 'this product isn't suitable sorry, here is our list of vegetarian products'. Yes, but I asked why not.

3. Contact mail order firm to particularly ask if an item they sell would need a signature on delivery. No that's fine they say, courier will leave in safe place. Courier turns up and rings for a signature. Etc.

Trivial but annoying when repeated for every other thing and when you have gone to the trouble to specifically ask something. Even extending to when the query isn't a complaint but is in their favour, such as the company that credited me as having returned an item I hadn't, and after 3 tries, I could not get them to understand it was still here & sitting in front of me...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It probably does not help the people in the call centres are paid a pittance,are on zero hour contracts and have to deal with customer abuse 24/7 too,whilst the people in senior management get paid loads for reducing costs.

[wasabi]

Works both ways. Part fo the problem is that customers generally suck now too and definetly no loyalty. Everyone is scrabbling for points of groupon, Amazon deals / HUKD and using price comparison sites so it is a race to the bottom.

[sammyc]

Indeed, you do end feeling reluctant to bother any helpline where you know the people at the sharp end have simply not been set up with the means to answer simple questions, and as I say do not have the right info to hand through no fault of theirs. With a small company you have some hope of them knowing their onions but with large firms staff are stuck with such a narrow range of means to help, so I certainly don't blame frontline CS.

[Jasp]

Working in a retail environment face to face on a commission driven job the above comment is quite correct their really is no loyalty from the customers and the generally consensus is their entitled to everything. Us - "I'm sorry Sir/Madam but the truck has overturned in bad weather luckily the driver and hand were unhurt but we will need to re-schedule your delivery" Customer - "This isn't good enough we want compensation I've had to take time off work i want that money back and your going to give me it". I spend a lot of time with my customers making sure they get the correct product that fits their needs and requirements then they walk out and buy it online as "Its Easier", annoys me no end.

[Lucio]

Think it's more to do with people's changing attitudes in the workplace, we're getting a new generation of workers who have been bought up to believe they deserve everything without working for it, if only they get lucky enough and others stop holding them back.

Couple that with the need for companies to cut costs in the UK, due to the poor economy and yeah can totally believe customer service sucks.

[badass]

"I'm sorry Sir/Madam but the truck has overturned in bad weather luckily the driver and hand were unhurt but we will need to re-schedule your delivery" Customer - "This isn't good enough we want compensation I've had to take time off work i want that money back and your going to give me it".

As a company if you agree to deliver goods at a certain point in time and the customer makes a loss as a direct result of you not fulfilling your end of the contract, that's perfectly reasonable. The company takes on that risk when they agree to sell.
Your attitude is a perfect example of what's wrong with a few companies that I have has the displeasure of dealing with. They all want to make their problems the customers problem.

[wasabi]

Interesting example case. If I take a day off work for someone to turn up from a utility company and they don't show, it drives me crazy. I've taken a day of annual leave and been trapped in the house all day waiting for them to turn up. I'm not a middle manager so can't pretend to work from home while really watching TV. This has happened to me several times. Same with paying extra for a Saturday delivery - sit in house all day, no show, then they turn up on Monday anyway. Grrrrr... If driver is injured, yeah, I get it. Often it is driver is a bit rushed or last job overruns 'cos they've been overscheduled - whatever, fob customer off with a load of excuses.

Nice thing about local companies. Local gas fitter - I drop key off night before and they can let themselves in when they like. I know and trust them, works both ways. That doesn't work with some big national gas company.

[Saracen]

Working in a retail environment face to face on a commission driven job the above comment is quite correct their really is no loyalty from the customers and the generally consensus is their entitled to everything. Us - "I'm sorry Sir/Madam but the truck has overturned in bad weather luckily the driver and hand were unhurt but we will need to re-schedule your delivery" Customer - "This isn't good enough we want compensation I've had to take time off work i want that money back and your going to give me it". I spend a lot of time with my customers making sure they get the correct product that fits their needs and requirements then they walk out and buy it online as "Its Easier", annoys me no end.

This is not a dig at you, but .... erm .... loyalty?

Any company I deal with gets loyalty from me provided I get the product I ordered, in the timeframe it was promised, and IF there's a problem that is the compant's responsibility to deal with, then they deal with it in a prompt, efficient and courteous way.

After all, I paid for a product and/or service, including delivery.

HOWEVER, there is a percentage of customers that are right ..... ummm .... let's say they have "unreasonable" expectations. Those, the ones that immediately jump on their rights, even when what they think are their rights actually aren't their rights, are never going to be "loyal". For instance, how many customers read the T&C's? My bet is not many. I, by the way, would be one who does, and if I don't like what I read, I just don't deal with the supplier in the first place.

Delivery is tricky. Generally, a customer is entitled to expect goods within 30 days, UNLESS a specific time or date for delivery has been agreed. In the absence of specific undertakings, any more is a guide, not a contractual commitment. Also, a "next day" delivery service generally refers to the period from when the seller hands goods to the courier, not from when the order has been accepted. T&C's often stipulate that, though not always in a terribly clear manner. But, if I receive an email saying "goods shipped" and I paid for 24-hour delivery, then it's reasonable to expect to get what I paid for, not "24 hours unless the lorry crashes".

So, IF the lorry crashes, I'm not going to scream and shout, but I do expect to be compensated, at least via a goodwill gesture, because the supplier failed to provide the service I'd paid for, and why they failed is not my problem.

And this is one place where good or excellent service comes in. If the company expects loyalty from customers, contact the customer, explain the problem, accept that despite the cause (crash) being beyond their control, they still failed to meet their obligation and OFFER something in compensation. It doesn't necessarily have to be huge, but it also shouldn't be insulting. Any reasonable person will understand it's a factor beyond the company's control, take the offer in good faith, and wait for a redelivery. The exception would be when on-time delivery was abso.utely critical, and the supplier knew that. Fot instance, if they're suppling a wedding dress to a bride for Saturday 5th, MAKE SURE you get it there in time to allow for unexpected delays, including lorry crashes, because if you don't and it arrives Monday 7th, expect a screaming, vengeful (and tearful) bride, a ripping mad bride's father, and a court date. And yes, it happened. Not to me, thank goodness.

One reason I prefer to shop at John Lewis and Waitrose is that when I've had product oroblems, and I have a few times, customer service has (so far) been first rate. I tend to go there as first preference, if they stock what I want, because of that experience of customer service. That's what I call loyalty. JL/Waitrose have earned my loyalty, and they'll continue to get it until/unless they start jerking me around.

I probably could often save mohey by shopping around, certainly by ordering online from box-shifters, but I don't. Why? Because I regard the difference in price between a box-shifter and a company like JL as being a premium for customer service, and the price I pay for hassle-avoidance. I really don't want the hassle of chasing up a recalcitrant seller after a problem if I can help it. If they try to screw me over, I will and several times have taken it as far as small claims court, in large part because if I get annoyed enough at being jerked about by bad customer service, I can and will be the customer from hell. But I'd MUCH rather get good service in the first place and avoid the hassle, and I pick my suppliers with that very much in mind.

Oh, and by the way, after being in business for 30 years, if I've committed to supply goods or services I bend over backwards to meet customer expectations, providing those expectations aren't wholly unreasonable. Doing so, at least up to "realistic expectations" is a good way to get further business. Failing to do so is a good way of losing a customer. It has to be reasonable both ways. That is, of course, a B2B environment, not retailer/consumer.

[Jasp]

The problem is taking the lorry situation as a example once upon a time people simply accepted that crap happens, these days the customer is well aware of their rights and expects everything from the retailer in effect bleeding them dry, a prime example is a customer who had a faulty product delivered we agreed to order a new one and exchange within one week the customer couldn't accept this and wanted to pick another product which was faster, fair enough i said the product they picked was £170 dearer and they expected us to cover the cost, the total order was £1000 across two orders after they had already been given discount on top of discount this represented another 17% of the order which i was unwilling to cover, 1 hour later and I'm still having the same argument with the customer....

[wasabi]

Retentions departments are another thing that drive me nuts. The only number you're likely to call and get a quick response is the retention department. So if you want to talk to a human quickly, you need to be threatening to leave.

[Saracen]

The problem is taking the lorry situation as a example once upon a time people simply accepted that crap happens, these days the customer is well aware of their rights and expects everything from the retailer in effect bleeding them dry, a prime example is a customer who had a faulty product delivered we agreed to order a new one and exchange within one week the customer couldn't accept this and wanted to pick another product which was faster, fair enough i said the product they picked was £170 dearer and they expected us to cover the cost, the total order was £1000 across two orders after they had already been given discount on top of discount this represented another 17% of the order which i was unwilling to cover, 1 hour later and I'm still having the same argument with the customer....

I'd put a £170 upgrade firmly in the category of "unreasonable expectations", whether it's in the context of "rights" or good customer service. Some customers are, well, idiots.

Whether a week of delay is acceptable, or reasonable, would depend on circumstances. For example, the wedding dress example, or similar. For instance, about 20 years ago I ordered a laser printer for a customer of mine. I checked, before ordering, if the prinrer was in stock, and was assured it was. This was a Monday, and I asked if it could be guaranteed, and I stressed guaranteed delivery by Wednesday, close of business, because I had to delivery it to my customer by Friday, at the latest. I was told, yes, absolutely guaranteed by Wednesday. My order, by fax, stipulated the specific model I'd inquired about, at that delivery by Wednesday PM at the latest was "of the essence". The order confirmation and acceptance, also by fax, confirmed both model and delivery date.

Come Wednesday, the order arrives .... wrong model. In fact, wrong damn make too. A rapid, and rather irate phone call confirmed it was a substitute as the model ordered was not in stock, and would not be for about two weeks. Well, that's no use to me. I suggested the company buy one in and ship it direct to me, next-day (Thursday). They declined. Too expensive, they said.

So I bought one locally. It added about £100 to the cost of a £1300 printer. I told them I expected to be compensated for the extra cost incurred. They declined. I sent two further demands for compensation, of which they declined the first and ignored the second. They didn't ignore the court papers, though. They paid for the extra cost, the time I'd wasted, and the court fees.

Had they simply understood that :-

1) THEY accepted the order, including the time stipulation,
2) Were contractually bound,
3) Breached the contract,
4) Caused me to incur extra costs solely because of their breach, and
5) Neither a substitute model nor two weeks delay were any more acceptable to me, because my client wouldn't accept that, than a bride would be about getting her wedding dress two days after the wedding.

.... and accepted that they messed up, and simply agreed to rectify the situation, they wouldn't have either incurred extra costs, or lost a customer.

Some customers can be utterly unreasonable in what they expect of suppliers, but some suppliers think they can be utterly dismissive of customer's reasonable expectations.

In neither case do I regard that as loyalty, but it certainly can be bad customer service.

I use John Lewis and Waitrose because I get a good product at a decent price, because they're convenient for me, and because of customer service. I've been using the same small business for car audio for nearly 40 years, and the same small garage for most of my car servicing needs for nearly 20 years, and for the same reason - good, reliable service at an acceptable price. I get good service from them, and they get repeat business and recommendations. But even that is a transaction. They get repeat business and recommendations because they pay attention to customer service. But it's not really loyalty, it's a mutual recognition of mutual best interest. If I can't rely on good servicr, I've no incentive to go back, and if I'm not a repeat customer, they've less incentive to provide good service.

[Saracen]

Retentions departments are another thing that drives me nuts. The only number you're likely to call and get a quick response is the retention department. so if you want to talk to a human quickly, you need to be threatening to leave.

Agreed on it driving me nuts. Trouble is, I'm reluctant to threaten that unless I mean it, and if I mean it, then that likely means my decision is made and it's not just a threat but a settled decision.

I'm convinced some companies, typically those that have consumers on monthly subs, assume that a lot of threats to leave are empty threats. Mine aren't. It's not a negotiating strategy with me. I dob't like poncing about playing games with companies, and more than once the conversatikn has gone something like :-

Me: I'd like to cancel, please.

Them: What's wrong, and what can we do to keep you?

Me: Explain problem, tell them what it'd take to resolve it.

Them: Counter offer, somewhat short of my requirement.

Me: No thanks, just cancel then please.

Them: Another counter offer, still short.

Me: Nope. Will you cancel subsctiption, please.

Them: Oh okay, we'll do what you asked.

But by then, I'm fed up with being jerked about, and the ONLY thing I'll accept is cancellation. Life's too short to waste it playing silly beggars with retentions departments. I don't make daft demands, but if they ask me what I'm expecting, I'll tell them, but I expect them to either agree, or cancel, not start a marathon negotiating session. Life's too short for that. I'm not a fan of retentions departments either, and the simple fact I've had to request account closure to get any serious attention means I'm already at the end of my patience with that company.

Having to talk to retentions before they take me seriously is already an example of lousy customer service, in my book.

[finlay666]

Lousy service? Waiting 4 days for a callback from a well know British airline after I was left stranded in a different continent without anywhere to sleep and being told information that was contradictory to EU regulations (261, plane delays), and without any consistent information as to what had happened. Being failed to be provided the claim information in advance and not provided any of my rights with the exception of 1 food voucher that hardly covered the cost of a meal. The delay left me significantly out of pocket with additional costs and being forced to take additional time off work.

Their social media response? Oh we're experiencing an unusually high number of complaints currently, well that's reassuring.