How do joysticks work?

[Ttaskmaster]

I know the obvious, in that you move it around to control stuff... But how do joysticks work within a game?

I'm not happy with the current selection of HOTAs systems (unless anyone wants to sell me a G940? ), as they have too many hats and not enough buttons for my liking. So I was looking at getting a custom set made...

A friend, who generally knows far more about PCs than me, tells me:

1/. It's expensive (I anticipated that).
2/. The company may need to supply custom drivers and config software (if they offer that service, then fair enough).
3/. Each game still needs to feature a profile for it to work, even if Windows already recognises the device.

Number 3 is the concerning part - Is this true? How come?
Would I not just need 4 axes (pitch, roll, yaw and throttle) assigned to analogue controls on the HOTAS, which the PC/game would read as individual joysticks?

I'm guessing it's not that straightforward, otherwise more people would be doing this?

[Ferral]

You can use things like Pinnacle Game Profiler to assign extra keys to the additional buttons, however like you have mentioned in point 2 there, a driver no doubt would be needed to make it work on Windows, something that tells Windows how many buttons etc.

I should imagine it would be quite costly for this type of level of customisation.

[DanceswithUnix]

If you start with a joystick and a small tablet USB keyboard then presumably it comes down to your 3D printing/model making skills to attach buttons in the right physical locations and wire them back to the USB keyboard?

Might be quite easy if you are making a full size flightsim/Elite cockpit, scaling the thing down might be the hard part.

Edit to add: Or get a cheap USB game pad and wire buttons from that?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedlink-1-...=pd_cp_vg_h__3

[peterb]

I guess you could use an arduino board to accept analogue inputs from a joystick, do some conversion and map this back to a USB input so it emulates a keyboard. Not done any research into it though, just speculation!

[Galant]

Useful?

Bugeye

Combatsim

CH

LeoBodnar

[Ttaskmaster]

Useful?

Yup, thanks - Already have a couple of them on my radar, but good to know I'm looking in the right places.

The plan is to get an existing HOTAS modded, mainly just swapping hats for buttons/switches... so hopefully the existing drivers would be OK and games would recognise it as an X-brand stick with some additional keys on the side as if I were using a Nostromo next to it, or something.

Making something myself, especially if I have to wire & solder and program up Arduinos, really isn't what I was looking for - I'd never get the build quality for one and by the time I'd fabricated it, learned how to program it, soldered it together and got it all working, we'd probably be flying spaceships for real!!

[herulach]

I don't want to sound negative, but compared to something like say a HOTAS Warthog you'd be gaining 2 buttons on the stick (assuming you wanted to keep at least 1 hat and didn't bother replacing the ones that already have a pushbutton built in) and 1 button on the throttle. This is in the context of a device with 38 buttons, 8 3 position switches and 5 2 position ones.

I imagine if you're paying someone to mod it for you I imagine you're going to start with a decent quality one anyway (if only so it will go back together properly) so even though its expensive, I don't imagine it will be more so than modding one. You can always either not map them, or map all 4/8 ways to the same function.

[Ttaskmaster]

I imagine if you're paying someone to mod it for you I imagine you're going to start with a decent quality one anyway

Sorry, I should probably point out, as I just realised I haven't actually said: Rather than having someone mod a stick, I was actually thinking to go direct to a manufacturer and have them customise one of their own models - I should think they'd be in the best position to offer a custom design + software, especially one who already offers a similar service to industries....?

compared to something like say a HOTAS Warthog you'd be gaining 2 buttons on the stick and 1 button on the throttle.

Most of those I already had in mind would gain me 5 buttons and a switch on the stick grip, with a good 15+ on the throttle. More of each if I can put stuff on the bases as well!

If I was modding it myself, there'd be no problem, especially if I was using something like the G940 which (aside from being rare as rocking-horse poo and I always get bid-sniped) is halfway there already. I expect I could happily rewire each 4-way hat into 4 different buttons!

You can always either not map them, or map all 4/8 ways to the same function.

The issue is that with my hands I find most types of hat awkward to use accurately. Of the 7 hats on a Warthog (which I used for several hours just last weekend) only 3 were really worakble for me and the throttle is also one of the most uncomfortable I've ever used. I just work better with buttons. If I could reach all the keys single-handed on a keyboard and have it mounted as a giant throttle, I'd only need a joystick, ha ha!!

It's all about how you'll never get the ideal, so you should get whatever best matches... except that even the best isn't close enough. Unlike other peripherals, though, this one really matters for me and the choices around are far fewer than any other peripheral... even less if you look at how many are actually in stock anywhere!!

I'm primarily looking for buttons on digits - Kinda like how the Nostromo works, which used in conjunction with my mouse gives me the ability to execute up to 10 commands at the same time.
The most I managed on the Warthog was 6 and only if I wasn't steering or changing speed.

[Zak33]

Rather than having someone mod a stick, I was actually thinking to go direct to a manufacturer and have them customise one of their own models - I should think they'd be in the best position to offer a custom design + software, especially one who already offers a similar service to industries....?

I hate to urinate upon a great idea.. but have you ever gone to AMD and asked for a custom made graphics card just for you? Or gone to Coolermaster and asked for a case just for you?

The sheer scale of production may need explaining.... it's vast... truly vast

to make a one off would involve a DIY job I think

[Ttaskmaster]

I hate to urinate upon a great idea.. but have you ever gone to AMD and asked for a custom made graphics card just for you? Or gone to Coolermaster and asked for a case just for you?

Do AMD and Coolermaster also have an existing industrial division that already supplies the very same custom service to businesses, though?

[TheAnimus]

Honestly it sounds like you are asking for a kind of service, that will probably arrive one day, that makes customised controllers. 3D Printing and the like should eventually drive down the cost of prototyping hardware, with a good enough production quality for use long term.

That way you could customise it, probably on some parameters they have in mind, then wait for it to be delivered.

[scaryjim]

Do AMD and Coolermaster also have an existing industrial division that already supplies the very same custom service to businesses, though?

Yes, they do, but it's on industrial scale. Thousands of units at a time. Not single items. You could go to a company and suggest they make such a product, but they will then do their own research to see if they think there's a market niche for it. If you offer to invest tens of thousands of pounds into making your product idea a reality, maybe they'll do a limited run and give you one. But it doesn't sound like you have that much money.

But here's an idea: talk to some of the peripheral manufacturers, and find out how much you'd need to invest to get them to do a limited production run of a custom peripheral, and how much you'd need to sell each item for to cover that investment. Then, run a kickstarter campaign to crowd-fund that development. If there's enough people who want the same thing as you out of a peripheral, you'll make the required money on the kickstarter and you'll be able to get your peripheral made!

[Ttaskmaster]

Honestly it sounds like you are asking for a kind of service, that will probably arrive one day, that makes customised controllers.

Pretty much... But since some of these companies already offer that service, I'm just asking around to see if they'll do an affordable one for me.

Yes, they do, but it's on industrial scale. Thousands of units at a time. Not single items.

Whereas some of these joystick companies DO provide single units. I found one that supplies my contractors with remote camera controllers, for example, who already have supplied my guys with such stuff.

It's only something they already make, with a couple of bits swapped out for other bits they already make. I already know the substitute parts will fit both the socket and the connections. It's then just a case of how it would work with the config software and whether I could perhaps get some extra buttons added!

As is, I'm having an actual meeting with one of the companies next Wednesday, who think it will be quite possible to do something within my 'price point'!!

[Gerrard]

I know you don't want to mod a stick, but I saw this today: -
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105653

I guess if you used a cheap gamepad like DanceswithUnix suggested, that might give you more options.

I do like the idea of 3D printing getting to the point where it's good enough to let us make our own joysticks!

[Ttaskmaster]

I know you don't want to mod a stick, but I saw this today: -https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105653

I've been reading that and a number of other threads on Sim forums where people have modded their own kit, mainly to see what sort of space exists inside various models.
My big drawbacks are knackered hands and not knowing enough about electronics to mod in new elements.

TBH, what we currently have for flight and space sims is seriously overpriced (because we're a captive market) and utter crap. If you want anything half-decent, there are really only two models to choose from and both are pretty pricey.
If just one of the companies that makes all that 100% accurate SimPit kit would step into the desktop market and offer things like the F-35 or Bell 525 as retail-grade HOTASes, or better yet a couple of basic templates with a list of customisation options - they'd make a killing!

[DanceswithUnix]

Pedals not a joystick, but if you haven't seen this review I thought it might interest you.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/...-contact-slaw/