Smoking ban in "open public spaces"?

[Ttaskmaster]

Indeed, I know quite a few nurses that smoke.

Out of a very large NW London trust, I knew three who did not. Annoyingly, all three of them the very ones I worked with, but hey!

Next you'd say no NHS for people who don't exercise, or who eat badly, or who don't manage their diabetes correctly or...

*I* will happily say that.
As a HEAVY smoker, I don't expect to get a flippin' thing of the NHS. MY choice to smoke, MY problem.
Same for anything else that is knowingly and repeatedly self-inflicted. There are kids out there who cannot get life-saving treatment for afflictions not their fault, all because people smoke like a chinmey, drink like a fish and laze around watching TV all the time.

Speaking of drinking - I saw far too many people wait far too long for quite serious treatment, because beds were taken up by drunken morons. Getting them in takes cops and paramedics off the streets, while keeping them takes A&E staff away from more important matters.
Chuck them in a drunk tank for the night and be done with it. That's what we used to do and it worked fine.

[Ttaskmaster]

Do you have as healthy a lifestyle as you possibly could? There's truly nothing you could do to improve things like go vegan/do more exercise? If not, why should NHS treat you either? Save loads of money if they only treat the top 1% healthy lifestylers who actually do everything they can

Ah... easy - Depends on how much all that costs.
Given the price of all that free-range organic stuff (and I know, because the Mrs buys it), a lot of people are restricted to what they can afford.

Exercise is free, though there will be upper and lower limits, as well as several other reasons why people cannot exercise as much as might be expected.

Cigarettes and alcohol, however, are voluntarily inflicted. All it takes to avoid that is to NOT buy them... especially if you cannot afford decent food!

[Zak33]

I'm up for banning it on beaches.

sit on your towel... your kid is happy on his towel and running to the sea and back

person on towel next to you lights up.. and puffs away on upwards of 20+ cigs for the next 2 hours

Eventually you have to move.. the smell ... it's close.. the fag buts... all over the place.

Banning in the street... nah.

[OilSheikh]

What about all those people who walk and smoke?
I walk by them and show them THE finger. Youa re gonna kill yourself, don't take others to the grave with you !

[kalniel]

What about all those people who walk and smoke?
I walk by them and show them THE finger. Youa re gonna kill yourself, don't take others to the grave with you !

You're right - they should be jogging.

[tepo]

You're right - they should be jogging.

well I never smoke much but I happen to find it helps my memory ( I like djarums )
and enjoy the buzz relief when I do - its the binge drinking clowns that are way out of line IMO and a real danger to others that I loathe.

[tepo]

You're right - they should be jogging.

better still give them pot and some redbull and reserved spot on mars away from this insanity

[ik9000]

better still give them pot and some redbull and reserved spot on mars away from this insanity

we may have found a use for mars!

[GoNz0]

I am an ex smoker and there is nothing worst, it started with the guilt of putting my Wife through living with a smoker as the smell now disgusts me walking into a smokers house.

It needs a change in the law, patients and relatives outside hospitals need arresting for ignoring smoking bans with huge fines, fines that would stop anyone from risking it rather than a £50 here and there. ignoring them doesn't work.
Any public area where the chance of a child being around also needs a law passing such as public parks, shopping areas, near schools.

My other huge niggle is the service industry, I have walked out of a few houses because the owners were smoking in the same room as me and I simply said that I couldn't work in a toxic environment and it was also unfair to go to other customers or myhome with the stench they were forcing on me.

Never went down well but work also didn't have a leg to stand on as it wasn't a safe working environment.

[tepo]

Ban Nicotine if you must but legalise Cannabis for medical and " religious " / research use ...

[tepo]

What about all those people who walk and smoke?
I walk by them and show them THE finger. Youa re gonna kill yourself, don't take others to the grave with you !

You should see how fast they walk in Jamaica mon..

[ik9000]

Ban Nicotine if you must but legalise Cannabis for medical and " religious " / research use ...

nope. Sorry. Find a derivative tablet drug for medicinal use if you must, but do not legalise weed. It's horrible - and far more pervasive than cigarettes IMO.

[Knoxville]

Despite being a smoker I support the ban in pubs, restaurants and work places. I've got no issue popping into the beer garden or waiting until I've finished my meal if it means not having a negative affect on others. None at all.

Same goes in private vehicles with more than one occupant, including my own. Despite it being my vehicle if you're in it as a passenger I will ask if you mind me smoking.

Outdoors though, in public spaces where nobody is under any duress or has any reason to be near me.... Then you need to start defining specific area's and giving me pretty good reasons. For instance, outside a hospital, school or in a que at a bus stop - I'm fine with that for obvious reasons. Near nature reserves or National Trust sites of that nature - again, I have no problem there, once you've seen what happens to rabbits when they eat cigarette butts it's hard to disagree with that, although that is more an anti-littering issue than simply an anti-smoking issue...

Simply being unable to have a cigarette as I walk somewhere, or sit in a park or on the beach though... Then you're pushing it in my opinion. Really pushing it. I don't like the smell of a catalytic convertor that's on it's way out when I walk past one that's sitting in traffic, nor do I like the smell of diesel exhaust fumes, or the negative affect that inhaling them will have on my health however it doesn't mean that banning them outright for the sake of my delicate disposition is practical or the right thing to do though.

If it's simply a case of litter being an issue, which it is, I smoke and I still don't want to sit on a pile of fag ends when I go to the beach, then banning smoking is not the best solution to that problem. At that point you might as well ban the sale of Coca-cola in public places, or chewing gum. Actually, as far as dirty habits and litter go, what people do with discarded chewing gum probably out ranks fag ends as far as litter that annoys and negatively affects me goes, but perhaps that's just me.

I absolutely understand the health issue and that some people find the smell distasteful and want nothing to do with it but if we could all ban everything on the basis of "I find x annoying" then we'd be on a slippery slope so what's really needed is a reasonable compromise. Personally speaking I think we're close to that compromise all ready. I can't smoke near anyone in my car, on a flight (average air quality on flights is now actually lower than it was before that ban but go figure), in a company car, in the workplace, outside said workplace in a lot of cases, in bus stops, on train station platforms, in pubs, clubs and restaurants or shopping centers. I'm fine with a crackdown on the LITTER caused by smoking, but beyond that I think pretty good reasons need to be brought forward against the act itself not the litter.

Oh and I'm not picking on non-smokers when I say this, but if you think it should be completely banned, or that the NHS should refuse to treat smoking related illnesses then I hope you understand just how much money is made from the taxation of tobacco and are happy to make up the difference by putting more money into the system to offset the ban or to sit down and do the maths with regard to how much treatment of those illnesses costs vs how much tax that patient has paid on tobacco in their lifetime.

That's not me being salty about people that are anti-smoking because I smoke myself either, that's just being realistic about the amount of money that's made taxing cigarettes and tobacco every year in this country, which according to HMRC records for 2012/13 was comfortably over £12 billion. That's around 12% of the NHS's budget for that year. By comparison, according to the British Medical Assosciation the average cost of treating smoking related illnesses on the NHS is between £2.5 billion and £6 billion a year. That's an awful lot of broken legs and sprained ankles that smokers have paid for, on top of their own treatment.

[TheAnimus]

Then why does a 24mg eCig not give me the same satisfaction... or indeed any satisfaction?
I'm toking on that far more than a cigarette and taking in even more nicotine, yet find it utterly rubbish...

If you really want to understand why, I'd recommend the book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...etailpage_o00_

But basically it's habit. There is a truly fascinating part of the brain, the ACC, it's the part that gives long term rewards, the complex reactions. It's also thought to be the part responsible for peoples religious beliefs in cults, that makes them double down when proved wrong the cognitive dissonance. It's not a stretch to say it's functions are responsible for a lot of our strange behaviour. It's obviously required in evolution for situations such as my legs hurt, I'll just stop and rest rather than walk off the mountain before storm hits, the ability to endure things that are short term negative.

But in this case you reward the action you like, and have negativity towards the same action presented differently.

This is human nature!

[Lanky123]

I agree with others who have said this is a fundamentally different issue to smoking in pubs/workplace/confined spaces. The issue with smoking in confined spaces was significant health risks, whereas this is 'some (possibly most) people find it unpleasant'. If it can't be proved that smoke from a passer-by outdoors is significantly harmful then it's not much more of an argument than 'I don't like your smelly kebab', 'the language I overheard in your private conversation offends me' or 'cover up that distasteful t-shirt slogan'. For the record I don't smoke, hate the smell and regularly make that clear when passing a smoker by wafting any fumes away from my face.

The other issue is that this clearly wouldn't be enforced in most areas - what council has the money to employ staff just to wander round all beaches/parks looking for smokers? I'd be surprised if such a scheme made the money back through fines, especially beyond the first few weeks. If the goal is to continue gradually reducing smoking then just carry on bumping up the tax - it works on a national level, raises much needed income and doesn't require a 'smoking warden' paid to receive dirty looks at every park bench.

[Zak33]

as Knox says... do NOT ban it totally...

the country's finances would crumble

kill yaself.. just do it a downwind please