Smoking ban in "open public spaces"?

[Ttaskmaster]

we may have found a use for mars!

Yeah, all the non-smokers can go there and enjoy a completely unpolluted atmosphere... Because I guarantee if everyone stopped smoking right this second, you'd have more threads complaining about other nasty, horrible, foul things...

But basically it's habit.

And that line is probably about the limit of my capacity to comprehend cognitive behaviour and such, I'm afraid... unless you can tell it all to me with small words?
Good suggestion, though.

But in this case you reward the action you like, and have negativity towards the same action presented differently.

I like smoking my roll-ups and am OK with vaping, but still sometimes want whatever else is in the roll-up, too.
I do not like factory-made ciggies, though, which is far closer to eVaping...

I agree part of it is habit and routine (after meals, daily work breaks, etc).
There's also those who haven't smoked for decades that still have cravings as strong as the day they quit.
Either way, it's often nothing to do with the nicotine...


The weird part is how many non-smokers "adore the smell of cigars, or pipes"... Double-standards, IMO, but if they're OK with cigars then I'll happily smoke whatever they buy for me!

[Kumagoro]

Well I was on the beach yesterday and some family came along later who were smokers and were up wind from me. It was annoying but luckily they were not chain smokers.

Should I have to move because they want to smoke?

I am for it being banned in certain areas where it can be crowdy even if it is only banned between certain times. That includes say shopping on the high street.

I think it should be an offence to smoke within 3 metres of an entrance as well, though it's more to stop idiots getting on the way.

[ik9000]

Yeah, all the non-smokers can go there and enjoy a completely unpolluted atmosphere... Because I guarantee if everyone stopped smoking right this second, you'd have more threads complaining about other nasty, horrible, foul things...

not smokers per-say more that we could solve over crowding here by sending undesirable criminal types there to form a colony. Bit like Australian settlement but on a bigger scale.

[Macman]

Do you have as healthy a lifestyle as you possibly could? There's truly nothing you could do to improve things like go vegan/do more exercise? If not, why should NHS treat you either? Save loads of money if they only treat the top 1% healthy lifestylers who actually do everything they can

I have a healthy-ish lifestyle, I'm very active. I play football 3 times a week, I golf and cycle. My diet however... But the only thing the NHS treats me for is my epilepsy and hearing loss. Which I had no bearing on.

[kalniel]

I have a healthy-ish lifestyle, I'm very active. I play football 3 times a week, I golf and cycle. My diet however... But the only thing the NHS treats me for is my epilepsy and hearing loss. Which I had no bearing on.

For now. But x years down the line, say you have a coronary, should they refuse to treat you because your diet now wasn't the best it could possibly be?

[neonplanet40]

To be honest they should just ban smoking completely and be done with it. Starting now, only people aged 17 and over can smoke. When that generation dies, no longer will they be available. That way, our new generation will have no choice but not to smoke as they won't be able to buy any (Unless someone gets them some). Overall this should reduce the number who do/will smoke!

[Ttaskmaster]

That way, our new generation will have no choice but not to smoke as they won't be able to buy any (Unless someone gets them some).

Back when I were a lad, the age for drinking used to be 18, if I recall...
My parents let me have alcohol from as early as 12.
I smoked regularly (as in more than 5 a day) from about that age too, though they didn't know until I was about 19.

It was almost a rite of passage, getting a complete stranger to go into a shop with money you give them and return to give you both the "10 B&H" you asked for *and* the change!!
Getting served in pubs (we didn't really do offies) was a lesser step, but still another milestone.

To their credit, many adults will just take the money and run these days, but I often get kiddies asking me to buy for them... and it's still 10 B&H they ask for!

[ik9000]

I often get kiddies asking me to buy for them... and it's still 10 B&H they ask for!

And do you? Do you buy them for them, facilitating their underage addiction to a harmful and destructive substance that will cost them financially and physically for years to come? Or do you warn them of the pitfalls, and spare them from the impending harm to which they are unwittingly (or perhaps wittingly) exposing themselves?

[Ttaskmaster]

And do you?

Well, it is quite the dilemma... Part of me really ought to, as they know darn well what they're getting into and/or need to learn the hard way.
On the other hand, for us it was always about picking the right target and persuading using good manners rather than threatening to "shiv" them.

Do you buy them for them, facilitating their underage addiction to a harmful and destructive substance that will cost them financially and physically for years to come?

If you put it that way, then no I do not.
However, where I used to live, those people who did would not be "buying fags for kids", so much as doing what would stop said yoof from then smashing their face in for daring to refuse such a polite and reasonable request... Most simply accept a 'charitable donation' and then 'accidentally drop' their freshly purchased cancer sticks as they exited the door.

Then again, given the sorts of people these kids were, I'd be quite inclined to facilitate the harmful toll on their worthless hides!

Or do you warn them of the pitfalls, and spare them from the impending harm to which they are unwittingly (or perhaps wittingly) exposing themselves?

If you put it that way, then again I do not.
If you were to try and put it like that to them, you'd get about as far as "impending harm" before you were swallowing your own teeth. Poncey language and fancy words have no place on the mean streets of Rickmansworth, my dear homie...!
I might use small words, like "Nah, they'll kill ya, mate" and be on my merry. Unlike most of their targets, however, I can tan their hides if they take direct issue with my decision. A few have followed those who declined home, or already knew them, whereupon damage to vehicles and such ensued. I was lucky and by the front door when they tried it on me... they weren't perceptive enough to notice the police officer who lived next door was also home!

[GuidoLS]

Interesting to see the differences between the US and the UK on some things -

Here, the minimum age to purchase is 18, with some states pushing for 21 (although that may see a serious fight).
Here, you go to jail if you purchase for a minor. No quibble, full stop - you're doing at least a weekend, and upwards to 30 days, and 1 day shy of a year in some jurisdictions for repeat violations. And that's just violating that statute. Then you get nailed for promoting delinquency, harming the welfare of a child, and if it's your kid, then you also get nailed by children's services.
If you sell to a minor, it's at minimum a $500 fine the first time, jail on repeated offenses, and if you own the shop, you can lose your license and/or your business. It's literally less dangerous to buy beer/booze for a minor (unless they get in an accident and/or kill someone while driving - at which point you get busted as an accessory...)

Of course, none of that seems to stop the kids from getting whatever they want. Older sibling/peer.... fake ID (yes, you get carded when you purchase smokes here).... even parental purchase.

Ah well - as I said, regret the 30+ years of wasted cash and health. At the very least, the cost of a very nice car or truck, up in smoke. That's in today's dollars. But it's amazing how much smoking kills your sense of taste, and how much better things taste and smell once you quit (or never start). 'nuff said. People are mostly free to do whatever they want to themselves. It's a shame that it's come to a point where governments around the world have to dictate when doing something crosses a line and starts hurting others. That should be common sense and common courtesy - ESPECIALLY in this day and age with all the data available. Sadly, it's still neither.

[ik9000]

Well, it is quite the dilemma... Part of me really ought to, as they know darn well what they're getting into and/or need to learn the hard way.
On the other hand, for us it was always about picking the right target and persuading using good manners rather than threatening to "shiv" them.


If you put it that way, then no I do not.
However, where I used to live, those people who did would not be "buying fags for kids", so much as doing what would stop said yoof from then smashing their face in for daring to refuse such a polite and reasonable request... Most simply accept a 'charitable donation' and then 'accidentally drop' their freshly purchased cancer sticks as they exited the door.

Then again, given the sorts of people these kids were, I'd be quite inclined to facilitate the harmful toll on their worthless hides!


If you put it that way, then again I do not.
If you were to try and put it like that to them, you'd get about as far as "impending harm" before you were swallowing your own teeth. Poncey language and fancy words have no place on the mean streets of Rickmansworth, my dear homie...!
I might use small words, like "Nah, they'll kill ya, mate" and be on my merry. Unlike most of their targets, however, I can tan their hides if they take direct issue with my decision. A few have followed those who declined home, or already knew them, whereupon damage to vehicles and such ensued. I was lucky and by the front door when they tried it on me... they weren't perceptive enough to notice the police officer who lived next door was also home!

ah, then the way out is to buy them Lambert and Butler/Menthols/Silk Cut Light or some other such rubbish so they don't ask you again.

[Ttaskmaster]

ah, then the way out is to buy them Lambert and Butler/Menthols/Silk Cut Light or some other such rubbish so they don't ask you again.

Expect that to hurt, as well...

[Kovoet]

I hate the habit and nothing worse walking past someone who smokes. It stinks and seriously what a waste of money

[TooNice]

One thing I really miss from the UK after coming to Japan is the smoking ban in enclosed places. I hate it, especially in restaurants. Smoking is still a bit of a status symbol in parts of Asia. I believe the world would be better without it (ditto for alcohol), but I am not convinced a complete ban is enforceable, and generally I don't really care what people do in private nor how they spend their money, so long as their habits do not have bad consequences to people unrelated to them. That's to say that if people what to binge drink, that's fine, just stay away from the wheel and don't go anti-social. If you want to do drug of any kind, that's fine, just don't fund you habit with crime (though I suppose that you might be funding criminals right now since there are no legal route now). And if people want to smoke that's fine as long as it does not harm people around (outside your own property).

Regarding bans outside it is a tough one. I don't really want a blanket ban as it will be met with the most resistance most likely to fail. But I think it is fair play in crowded places to either ban it, or separate smoking and non-smoking area. A person lighting a cigarette in the opposite side of the beach / park is not going to be a problem. Lighting it in front of me can be depending on the wind's direction. On the street, I am not sure. Right now it doesn't bother me since I can easily hold my breath until I walk past the smoker (but yes, I notice it immediately), but what if due to age or injury, I lose my ability to do that?

When I think about it, a couple having sex (in most cases a non-harmful act) in public would bother me less *provided* that they keep their "fluids" in control. Yet most people accept that such acts should be avoided in public, presumably because embarrassment aside, it is also a nuisance to the public.

The weird part is how many non-smokers "adore the smell of cigars, or pipes"... Double-standards, IMO, but if they're OK with cigars then I'll happily smoke whatever they buy for me!

You definitely won't be getting that from me. As far as smell is concerned, I can't comment on e-cigarettes as I haven't encountered one (or they are so odourless I didn't notice), and the only other thing people inhale that hasn't bothered me is the shisha. I lump cigarettes, cigars and pipes together though.

[Kumagoro]

Even in Japan now it's a lot better than 10 years ago. There are a lot more smoke free restaurants, segregated areas and I have noticed even in out door shopping malls they have designated smoking areas now.

Still, going into restaurants where it's not banned makes me appreciate the ban in the UK.

[Rave]

It saddens me to see what an intolerant bunch we've all become. I'm a smoker and I smoke because I enjoy it- I'm not addicted to nicotine and I could quit any time I want. I don't because I don't want to. On average I probably do 8 rollups a day, a 50g pack of rolling baccy (which I buy in Belgium for £6 rather than pay £17 here) lasts me at least 4 weeks. I'm also a considerate smoker- I've never smoked in my own home despite being a smoker when my wife met me; it didn't put her off marrying me and our 12th anniversary's coming up in September. Like Knox I don't smoke in my own car without permission, unless we're stationary in a tailback, or unless I'm flagging on the motorway and I know that a dose of nicotine will wake me up rather than having to stop for safety reasons. It's always worked so far.

I work in the bus industry and I sometimes have to put in an 8 hour shift in an enclosed bus garage full of diesel buses chugging about. All the research says that diesel particulates are a hell of a lot worse for your health than directly smoking fags; the difference between that and involuntarily inhaling a smidge of a dirty smoker's secondhand fumes on a beach must be orders of magnitude. And I'm basically still perfectly healthy.

So just get over yourselves.