Illegal Entry @ Channel Tunnel...

[Knoxville]

Eurotunnel said security guards and police logged more than 300 attempts to enter its site in Calais overnight on Wednesday. The figure was down from 1,500 the previous night, a drop the company attributed to an increased French police presence

Clearly it is working to an extent, just not perfectly. Unless someone at Eurotunnel or the BBC is making up figures to suit themselves.

My solution would be to further increase the Police presence in France and send Police officers from the UK that aren't already involved with operations on our side of the channel to assist them. Increase the physical security measures on site, then start interviewing those involved. Either they have a reasonable claim to asylum in which case they should be given permission to stay for humanitarian reasons or as a refugee. If they can't provide good reason to be seeking asylum they can then be sent back to their country of origin as they would be usually, using the laws we already have in place.

Sending in our armed forces isn't a reasonable reaction to the problem in my opinion. Use of firearms against unarmed civillians, whether they're supposed to be there or not, is not a justifiable use of force. Anyone can put up a barricade and stand guard next to it. At the moment the consequence of crossing said barrier is that you will be arrested and detained. Our armed forces are not trained, equipped or experienced in the arrest of civillians, so unless you can justify the use of deadly force all they're going to do is look a bit scarier while having no more power than the Police officers already on site. The consequences should something go wrong or should the situation escalate as a result of their presence could also be very, very nasty.

[kalniel]

Increase developmental aid and tackle the problems that lead to people fleeing their country in the first place.

[HalloweenJack]

throw more money at the problem then - recruit more police not downsize.....


you alrleady have lorry drivers being beaten , coaches of OAP`s being attacked and families in cars - only time and people WILL DIE. from this.

[HalloweenJack]

Increase developmental aid and tackle the problems that lead to people fleeing their country in the first place.

the extremists who happily throw you off a building roof for smoking? because money will fix that...

[kalniel]

the extremists who happily throw you off a building roof for smoking? because money will fix that...

Well any approach to fix it needs to be funded, whether that's diplomats, education, or military means etc.

[HalloweenJack]

Well any approach to fix it needs to be funded, whether that's diplomats, education, or military means etc.

other than turning back time and not removing the brake on the ``tyrants` (or those who don't want to tow US policy line)

whats the solution now?

[Macman]

Increase developmental aid and tackle the problems that lead to people fleeing their country in the first place.

Increase dev aid? why? We send enough as it is.

[Knoxville]

throw more money at the problem then - recruit more police not downsize.....


you alrleady have lorry drivers being beaten , coaches of OAP`s being attacked and families in cars - only time and people WILL DIE. from this.

I don't disagree with more money being put into emergency services at all.

As for these "attacks" I've heard reports of lorry drivers mixing it up with stowaways but not much beyond that... Do you have any sources?

Searching for injuries in Calais all I'm getting are reports from Médecins du Monde who are claiming they're struggling to treat the injuries incurred both within the makeshift immigrant camp in Calais and those that have injured themselves attempting to cross the border. As far as deaths go, there have already been deaths. According to the BBC nine immigrants have died either in the camp or while attempting to cross the border since June. With over thirty having died in the last twelve months for the same reasons.

the extremists who happily throw you off a building roof for smoking? because money will fix that...

Looking at some of the responses to the thread on smoking in public places there are already plenty of British citizens happy to do that for me

[ik9000]

Increase developmental aid and tackle the problems that lead to people fleeing their country in the first place.

I agree. The problem is Mugabe et al bang the drum of "colonial intereference" and as we all see in other parts of the world, other than a long-term military presence, there is not much you can do to sort out the problems arising as a result of power vacuum. Did anyone see the panorama last night on Tunisia? It made the interesting point that a lot of the people who used to deal with foreign affairs and internal counter-terrorism etc were desposed/removed or worse during the regime change/arab spring/revolution whatever you want to call it, and those now supposed to be doing it don't have the experience to do it properly. Extend that over whole governments of multiple countries and it's no wonder they aren't doing very well. It is a small picture of when the British Empire ended and the released colony countries left in place were not all able to take over the reigns as they didn't have the experience and ready ability to self-govern.

[kalniel]

other than turning back time and not removing the brake on the ``tyrants` (or those who don't want to tow US policy line)

whats the solution now?

I'm not an expert, but I'd like there to be better co-ordinated world-wide efforts on improving education and studies into root factors of causes of the things that cause population migration. It may be environmental, it might be intolerance, it might be selfish behaviour, but you can change the morals of a population over time with the right education for example, so looking at barriers to that education might be an important first step.

Increase dev aid? why? We send enough as it is.

I'm guessing we don't - a small increase on our part can make a huge difference to someone else. We also need to improve how it is used to make sure it's not wasted.

[kalniel]

I agree. The problem is Mugabe et al bang the drum of "colonial intereference" and as we all see in other parts of the world, other than a long-term military presence, there is not much you can do to sort out the problems arising as a result of power vacuum. Did anyone see the panorama last night on Tunisia? It made the interesting point that a lot of the people who used to deal with foreign affairs and internal counter-terrorism etc were desposed/removed or worse during the regime change/arab spring/revolution whatever you want to call it, and those now supposed to be doing it don't have the experience to do it properly. Extend that over whole governments of multiple countries and it's no wonder they aren't doing very well. It is a small picture of when the British Empire ended and the released colony countries left in place were not all able to take over the reigns as they didn't have the experience and ready ability to self-govern.

A good point, which illustrates why it needs to be a world-wide approach. Britain/western countries can't do it alone.

[Macman]

I'm guessing we don't - a small increase on our part can make a huge difference to someone else. We also need to improve how it is used to make sure it's not wasted.

We don't?

Even if we spent 10x more on the current development aid, we would still be having this issue.

Top 10 aid donor countries (2013)

European Union – $86.66 billion
1. United States – $31.55 billion
2. United Kingdom – $17.88 billion
3. Germany – $14.06 billion
4. Japan – $11.79 billion
5. France – $11.38 billion
6. Sweden – $5.83 billion
7. Norway – $5.58 billion
8. Netherlands – $5.44 billion
9. Canada – $4.91 billion
10. Australia – $4.85 billion

Automatic Sentry Guns (Heat Detection) placed before and in tunnels; as deterrents; armed with rubber pellets.

UK and France need to step it up and make drastic changes.

[kalniel]

We don't?

Even if we spent 10x more on the current development aid, we would still be having this issue.

Not if we also tackled the causes of people fleeing their own countries. There are many many countries where people don't flee - they are doing something right (or at least, better) compared to those war torn/persecution heavy ones.

[The Hand]

Not if we also tackled the causes of people fleeing their own countries. There are many many countries where people don't flee - they are doing something right (or at least, better) compared to those war torn/persecution heavy ones.

The problem is, it's not just the war and pestilence scenarios that are driving the situation, demographic and economic shifts in Africa are driving the migrants too. China's investment (or exploitation and colonisation some argue) is the main driver behind shifts which is creating a have and have-not class structure in many developing African countries.

Chinese companies and African sister companies are employing the bright and qualified Africans creating a new Chinese backed African middle-class, but that leaves millions of unskilled poor behind and many of these poor unskilled Africans are taking their chances for a new life in Europe - the economic migrant scenario - but the problem is Europe doesn't want them either.

Here some interesting documentaries by Al-Jazeera English:

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...158396626.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...847903369.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...324932466.html

I surprised the BBC hasn't addressed this side much or at all to be honest. It's China's economic empire building, that's causing this demographic shift in Africa and elsewhere and the disenfranchised unskilled poor of these African countries are not wanted by China or Africa and so they head north to Europe, where they hear stories of work (illegal or not) a safety net welfare system and free health service etc etc.

So Europe is getting the poor and unskilled from Africa and China gets it's bright sparks, resources and riches.

[kalniel]

If that's the case then we (the world) needs to do more to sell the benefits of civilization to Africa and China.

[The Hand]

If that's the case then we (the world) needs to do more to sell the benefits of civilization to Africa and China.

Yes, we should do, but will they Africa and China listen? Maybe, maybe not. I doubt China will take much notice at all.