Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 17

Thread: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

  1. #1
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    ...

    Former City trader Tom Hayes has been found guilty at a London court of rigging global Libor interest rates.

    He was sentenced to 14 years in prison for conspiracy to defraud.

    ...
    Well, I rather suspect the public reaction to a banker, ANY banker, actually getting a serious jail sentence for some of their disgraceful antics, is not only richly deserved, but well overdue. Mine certainly is.

    On the overdue bit, he was charged in 2013 and it's taken until now for the slowly grinding wheels of justice to turn through investigation, charge, trial, verdict and sentence.

    Hopefully, first of many, 'cos he WASN'T the only one.

  2. #2
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,857
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    872 times in 736 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Would be nice to know exactly what the effect of his manipulation was.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Dell Precision 5510 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: Huawei P30 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM14 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  3. #3
    Senior Member SeriousSam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Anywhere Mental
    Posts
    788
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked
    169 times in 114 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Would be nice to know exactly what the effect of his manipulation was.
    And who actually benefited the most on an individual basis...
    If Wisdom is the coordination of "knowledge and experience" and its deliberate use to improve well being then how come "Ignorance is bliss"

  4. #4
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Would be nice to know exactly what the effect of his manipulation was.
    Manipulating LIBOR, apparently, would arguably would make very small differences to millions, or hundreds of millions of people, by potentially micro-changing your loan rates, mortgage payments, etc.

    I remember an account, about 30 years ago, of a US Army payroll programmer making a small change to software that rounded the pay for about a million troops down by a cent, instead of up by a cent. The individual damage, per person, was therefore at most one cent per paycheck. Who'd notice, or really care? But it netted him millions .... until a surprise audit caught him, at which point it netted him, IIRC, several years in Leavenworth for fraud.

    This was likely to have much the same result. Individually, the effect was proably tiny, but collectively, when exposed, it msssively undermines the whole system. How do we judge the cost of that?

  5. #5
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    45
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    2 times in 2 posts
    • dark-knight's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Rampage V Extreme, Intel X99 Chipset
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i7 5960X, 8-Core with HT
      • Memory:
      • 16GB (4x4GB) Dominator Platinum, 3000MHz
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 850 PRO 128 GB, 2 x Samsung 850 PRO 1TB & OCZ Vertex Turbo 60GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia GTX 690
      • PSU:
      • Enermax 1250w revolution
      • Case:
      • SilverStone Temjin Series TJ09
      • Operating System:
      • microsoft window 7 professional
      • Internet:
      • 100 mb Connection

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    The issue I have with this type of punishment is yes, what he did was incorrect but this cannot be an isolated incident, a rogue trader who's bosses didn't know what was happening.

    Perhaps im just naive in thinking he has been made to be a scape goat and those that really caused most of the crash ie the rich and powerful have gotten off scot free..... for now.

  6. #6
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    This isn't about the crash, though. It's mainly post-crash. Sadly, what many bankers did to cause the crash wasn't illegal, though with hindsight, it was certainly irresponsible. Some measures have been put in place so that if bankers repeat some of what they did, it'll now be illegal but it wasn't back then. And, indeed, various governments encouraged many of the actions that caused the crash because banks were, short-term at least, government's golden-egg-laying geese.

    The biggest single problem was that while some of what went wrong was forseeable, and indeed, foreseen, other bits weren't. And even the bits that were foreseeable, no politician wanted to be the one responsible for those miracle geese being strangled on their watch.

    They'd all been playing a game of financial musical chairs for about 20 years, all hoping they wouldn't be the ones left standing when the music stopped. While Gordon Brown was especially incompetent in that regard, notice the Tories (now) blaming Labour yet, while Labour were in power, most Tories weren't calling them on it. Brown happened to be the one still standing when the music stopped.

  7. #7
    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Middlesex
    Posts
    3,494
    Thanks
    195
    Thanked
    383 times in 292 posts
    • b0redom's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Some iMac thingy
      • CPU:
      • 3.4Ghz Quad Core i7
      • Memory:
      • 24GB
      • Storage:
      • 3TB Fusion Drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nViidia GTX 680MX
      • PSU:
      • Some iMac thingy
      • Case:
      • Late 2012 pointlessly thin iMac enclosure
      • Operating System:
      • OSX 10.8 / Win 7 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2713H
      • Internet:
      • Be+

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    I may be the only one thinking it, but this strikes me as a MASSIVE waste of money. What's the point in putting him in jail? It will cost the tax payer tens of thousands more. I personally reckon that only people who are a danger to themselves or others should be locked up.

    Surely it's far better to asset strip him and then impose a humongous penalty on anything he earns in the future? I would have thought that a far better deterrent than the possibility of being locked up in a minimum security prison? If we're that bothered about restricting his freedom, put him under house arrest at his own expense.

  8. #8
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    My guess is that a clear message is being sent to the broader financial community that those commiting 'white collar' crime that undermines the whole industry ARE going to get very unpleasant consequences if caught.

    Remember that, even now, the finance industry is crucially important for this country, and it raises huge revenues for the Exchequer, and underpins core services provision, and undermining that could have disastrous results for the whole country.

    To be honest, for threatening that, for his own ego and greed, I think he, and others hopefully still to go to trial, deserve every day of that. The millions of people adversely affected by the actions of greedy, self-centred and self-styled "masters of the universe" are finally seeing some cold, hard justice for at least some of their actions.

  9. #9
    Cute & Fluffy GreenPiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    1,196
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked
    9 times in 8 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I remember an account, about 30 years ago, of a US Army payroll programmer making a small change to software that rounded the pay for about a million troops down by a cent, instead of up by a cent. The individual damage, per person, was therefore at most one cent per paycheck. Who'd notice, or really care? But it netted him millions .... until a surprise audit caught him, at which point it netted him, IIRC, several years in Leavenworth for fraud.
    I'm pretty sure that was the plot of Superman II
    Knight 1: We are now no longer the Knights who say Ni.
    Knight 2: NI.
    Other Knights: Shh...
    Knight 1: We are now the Knights who say..."Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG. Zoom-Boing. Z'nourrwringmm.

  10. #10
    mush-mushroom b0redom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Middlesex
    Posts
    3,494
    Thanks
    195
    Thanked
    383 times in 292 posts
    • b0redom's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Some iMac thingy
      • CPU:
      • 3.4Ghz Quad Core i7
      • Memory:
      • 24GB
      • Storage:
      • 3TB Fusion Drive
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nViidia GTX 680MX
      • PSU:
      • Some iMac thingy
      • Case:
      • Late 2012 pointlessly thin iMac enclosure
      • Operating System:
      • OSX 10.8 / Win 7 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2713H
      • Internet:
      • Be+

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    ...and Office Space

  11. Received thanks from:

    jackvdbuk (04-08-2015)

  12. #11
    Hello jackvdbuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Stratford
    Posts
    2,513
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked
    112 times in 95 posts
    • jackvdbuk's system
      • Motherboard:
      • AbiT IP35-PRO
      • CPU:
      • Intel C2Q Q9550
      • Memory:
      • OCZ Nvidia SLi Edition 4GB (2x2gb) pc2-6400 DDR2
      • Storage:
      • lots of TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • BFG 8800GTS 512MB
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX620W
      • Case:
      • Corsair 800D
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Premium x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2407WFP
      • Internet:
      • Orange (about 6Mb)

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by b0redom View Post
    ...and Office Space
    exactly what saracens post reminded me of

  13. #12
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenPiggy View Post
    I'm pretty sure that was the plot of Superman II
    I don't think so, but I heard the story about it before that. And WAY before Office Space.

  14. #13
    Senior Member SeriousSam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Anywhere Mental
    Posts
    788
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked
    169 times in 114 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Wasn't the sub-plot in Superman 2 where he took all the fractions of a cent beyond 2-decimal places ?
    If Wisdom is the coordination of "knowledge and experience" and its deliberate use to improve well being then how come "Ignorance is bliss"

  15. #14
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by jackvdbuk View Post
    exactly what saracens post reminded me of
    Maybe Office Space got the idea from the same incident I'm referring to? But I got it from hacking stories before most people knew what computers were.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Peter Parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    98
    Thanked
    62 times in 47 posts
    • Peter Parker's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming
      • CPU:
      • i5-6600K
      • Memory:
      • 16GB DDR4
      • Storage:
      • Kingston 128GB SSD + 2x3TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GTX970
      • PSU:
      • SilverStone ST50EF
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Grandia GD01S-MXR
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 33

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    You're thinking of Superman III (Richard Pryor, and that crazy supercomputer end of level "boss" at the end). Superman II had the three Kryptonian baddies - General Zod played by Terence Stamp, and two others I can't name, though the lady in the tight black outfit left a strong impression on me *ahem* moving on...

    Back in the real world I find this bit the most interesting :-
    Hayes ... said while giving evidence that "everything I did was with complete transparency. Everything I did my managers knew about...sometimes going up all the way to the CEO."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ing-rates.html

    After all the recorded interviews with this guy and existing evidence in emails and trading systems, I'd be amazed if they don't have enough to convict several other more senior people. I just don't believe it'll happen though Teflon coated.

    I don't think his sentence is harsh. He'll be out in 6-7 years on parole/licence, and I guess he'll not be put in with a bunch of murderers and rapists, and might be moved to an open prison. His crimes might sound small compared to said murderers and rapists who sometimes get only slightly harsher sentences, but he probably caused financial problems that affected millions of people. Perhaps someone couldn't re-mortgage and lost their home, or borrowed a huge mortgage at an artificially low rate and will be in trouble if rates rise later this year. It's almost impossible to know exactly, but if the banks were profiting then I'm sure the rest of us were losing. Based on their profits, I'd say he's guilty of a greater theft than the Hatton Garden safety deposit box break-in.

  17. #16
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,168
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Banker gets prison .... 14 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Parker View Post
    I don't think his sentence is harsh. He'll be out in 6-7 years on parole/licence, and I guess he'll not be put in with a bunch of murderers and rapists, and might be moved to an open prison. His crimes might sound small compared to said murderers and rapists who sometimes get only slightly harsher sentences, but he probably caused financial problems that affected millions of people. Perhaps someone couldn't re-mortgage and lost their home, or borrowed a huge mortgage at an artificially low rate and will be in trouble if rates rise later this year. It's almost impossible to know exactly, but if the banks were profiting then I'm sure the rest of us were losing. Based on their profits, I'd say he's guilty of a greater theft than the Hatton Garden safety deposit box break-in.
    No, it really couldn't have effected something that much.

    These crimes can be very low impact, so long as only one or two people are doing it. Imagine that someone just stole 1p from everyones bank account that had more than £500.01 credit, just before the interest payment of 3p was to be applied. It wouldn't create an issue for anyone really. No one would loose their homes, no transactions would likely bounce.

    But if 100,000 people had the same idea.... Then suddenly it would.

    As a result the sentence is high as a deterrent, not because of the impact on the victims.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •