General advice needed on a brodband service provider

[AledJ]

First thing I understand any advice given is not done so on any professional basis, and is just the opinion of the writer.


So I will try to be brief..................

6 months ago I signed up to VM for 150Mbps line but things went south straight away! The only time I have seen anything close to that was 147 Mb/s at 6.30 am ! I have been on to VM several times a month to get an update (because they cant be bothered to keep me up to date), and I have had to fight for more than the insulting £12.50 service discount! As i'm at work from 7.30 am till 7pm when I get home all I get is no more than 10 Mb/s thats it! And on top of that my ping in multi player games is horrendous at times.

I am told that the Council are the problem as VM need to dig up the road or something to replace equipment, and the review dates keeps sliding! I live in small cul-de-sac so any digging would cause little trouble, and the Council pushing work back 8 times??? I dont buy that pathetic excuse!! Oh and the last excuse was that they were waiting on equipment from abroad

What I want advice on is................what option do I have?

Can I cancel my direct debit? and what consequences would I face ?

Other than writing a written complaint (which I doubt they will pay attention to), what other options do I have?

[Splash]

Paging Dareos to the thread

(if he doesn't drop by I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you were to PM him - he works for VM and is an absolute legend)

[munchie]

not sure cancelling direct debit without cancelling service is a good idea, as you'll be owing them money. isn't there some watchdog that you can complain to? eg ofcom?

[Saracen]

....

What I want advice on is................what option do I have?

Can I cancel my direct debit? and what consequences would I face ?

Other than writing a written complaint (which I doubt they will pay attention to), what other options do I have?

Your option is to create and follow up on a complaint process, and if verbal complaints aren't getting you anywhere, written must follow.

You are in a contract. It is enforceable. If you just stop paying by cancelling the DD, it does NOT stop the money being due, or you bring liable for it. If you continuing to refuse to pay, what will follow is either debt collectors, or County Court judgements. Neither will do your credit record any good, and nor will the 'defaults' that follow non-payment .... or late payment. And CCJs are REALLY bad for your credit. You run the risk of increased interest rates on mortgage/loan applications, if you can get them at all, and might even find yourself struggling to get a mobile phone on contract since that is effectively a credit agreement.

In case you're not getting the thrust of my points ... DO NOT JUST CANCEL THE DD.

[abaxas]

They are supplying what you paid for..... they have no requirement for connectivity beyond their network.

[Disturbedguy]

They are supplying what you paid for..... they have no requirement for connectivity beyond their network.

Sorry but how on earth are they supplying what they paid for?

He is paying for up to 150Mbp and he is getting 10, is it unreasonable to expect at least half of what he has paid for or hell even the full amount seeing as they themselves say they do not traffic manage their connections (or at least they said so last time I checked)...

[AledJ]

not sure cancelling direct debit without cancelling service is a good idea, as you'll be owing them money. isn't there some watchdog that you can complain to? eg ofcom?

I have emailed OFCOM but there is not a lot they can do, apart from keep it for future possible action.

Your option is to create and follow up on a complaint process, and if verbal complaints aren't getting you anywhere, written must follow.

You are in a contract. It is enforceable. If you just stop paying by cancelling the DD, it does NOT stop the money being due, or you bring liable for it. If you continuing to refuse to pay, what will follow is either debt collectors, or County Court judgements. Neither will do your credit record any good, and nor will the 'defaults' that follow non-payment .... or late payment. And CCJs are REALLY bad for your credit. You run the risk of increased interest rates on mortgage/loan applications, if you can get them at all, and might even find yourself struggling to get a mobile phone on contract since that is effectively a credit agreement.

In case you're not getting the thrust of my points ... DO NOT JUST CANCEL THE DD.

I wont be cancelling my DD due to the point you mentioned, but a contract should work both ways and they have broken their end of it!

They are supplying what you paid for..... they have no requirement for connectivity beyond their network.

You must have miss read the service I entered into a contract for, because they are not providing what im paying for...................far from it. If they were providing 140Mbps + then while not 150Mbps, I could happily live with that speed. And yes they do have a requirement to provide what I pay signed up for, not a speed which is laughable!



So since my original post I have been on the phone twice more to VM with no luck in getting any solid date from them, and they had the audacity to tell me there would be an exit fee. Well that's when I hit the roof with the agent (and i never raise my voice to them), but this was taking the biscuit. But I did secure that if I decided to cancel there will be no exit charge!

The guy I spoke to today tried to say that I had added to the over utilization, because in the last month I had downloaded 100GB. At that point I started laughing! And the guy tried to make out that £12.50 was a good discount, I then asked him would he pay £28 for the speed I was getting.............. silence!

I have printed a letter of complaint although I have no hope it will be read. Last resort is to post the same thing every day on their FB page!

[Saracen]

...

I wont be cancelling my DD due to the point you mentioned, but a contract should work both ways and they have broken their end of it!

....

Indeed it should, but that was my point. Your course of action is rather determined by what end result you want. One option is the speed you paid for. Another is a good compensating discount until you do. A third option is to be formally moved to a lower speed commensurate with what they can provide. A fourth, if you think you can do better elsewhere, is to be released from the contract.

In ANY of those scenarios, unless they agree to what you want voluntarily, your best bet is to start documenting everything. Detailed notes of phone conversations (date, time, number dialed, identity of person answering, notes on what was discussed/agreed), etc. Better yet, record it. Don't publish the recordings, but for your own records .....

And even better, start doing it in writing, preferably recorded delivery. There will be a complaint process. Follow it. If you are getting jerked about by customer service, ask for a supervisor (good luck with that, by the way, but record that you asked, and what happened).

Ultimately, you're in one of three situations :-

1) They concede, and give you a satisfactory solution, or
2) You give in and give up, or
3) It comes to a fight, and maybe a court case over breach of contract.

Hopefully, you get 1). In which case, problem resolved. Or, you decide it's too much hassle and go for 2), in which case, problem still over.

But if you end up with 3), it is overwhelmingly in your interest to be able to prove two things - first, that you have been reasonable, and patient, and tried to resolve it, and second, that you have carefully documented every step of the way.

There's one more wrinkle.

I can't say about VM, but I have come across companies in the past where a large part of the function of customer service is to deflect customer complaints, and make them go away. And they are often very much aware that many people will blow off steam on the phone, but never get around to actually doing anything concrete beyond that.

There is no universal solution, but my methodology involves trying to resolve things on the phone, but if that doesn't work, I confirm in writing. That does two things - it gives you a formal evidence trail, and it sends a psychological message, you are aren't just giving up. Also, you're following a path they will recognise. My experience is that that is often enough .... assuming I have a good case/argument, of course. If that gets nowhere, my next step is to put cc. <my solicitor's name> on subsequent letters, which is another hint to the path I'm on, and a none-too-subtle one. If that still doesn't do it, a letter from my solicitor so far always has. Of course, that last step costs, and I DO NOT do that for bluster. If I go that far, it's because my solicitor reckons I have a good case, worth pursuing. But that letter, because it costs, sends them an unequivocal message that you aren't just giving up, and costs for them are about to start piling up. So if CS were just blowing you off, that'll stop. At which point, either they give in and you get 1), or you have the written supporting evidence you need for 3).

In any event, you do have the option to allege beach of contract on their part, but if you do, you want to have done everything reasonable to resolve it first, because winning a legal fight may depend on having done so, and that includes following their complaint/dispute procedure.

[deejayburnout]

Over utilisation at 100gb on a 150mb line. Really????

The way I see it. You are paying for 150mb but getting 10mb. This is well below the minimum working range of the line. As they cannot provide you with the service you pay for, surly they are in breach of contract and shouldn't charge you for a service that they cannot provide.

[Zak33]

I pay more than that for,Zen Ftc at about 50mbs

I don't get anywhere close to 100gig download

Do virgin shape their traffic? I mean....maybe you'd,get a,good speed if you downloaded,less?

My parents-in-law have just,moved from adsl at under 1mbs (zero chance of BT upgrading the service....virgin dominate the area) to virgin fibre at 55mbs. However....upload is 3...which must be an attempt at prevention of,file sharing I guess. Not that they do or even know what it is...but it does slow down email sends relative to received abd I was surprised by the,limit myself so Virgin must shape in some way

[abaxas]

You are getting a 150mbps line, on their network. Then whatever goes to the outside world. This is basic routed networking lesson 1.

TBH The only gaurentee is >64kbps as below this cannot be sold as broadband.

[Disturbedguy]

You are getting a 150mbps line, on their network. Then whatever goes to the outside world. This is basic routed networking lesson 1.

TBH The only gaurentee is >64kbps as below this cannot be sold as broadband.

He may have a 150mbps line from Virgin but he certainly isn't getting anywhere near what could realistically be expected, is it wrong to expect to get speeds somewhere close to what you paid for or are you just being pedantic for the sake of it?

Zak, when I was with Virgin they traffic shaped although they claimed they did not. Whether they still do now, I'm not sure.

[Saracen]

You are getting a 150mbps line, on their network. Then whatever goes to the outside world. This is basic routed networking lesson 1.

TBH The only gaurentee is >64kbps as below this cannot be sold as broadband.

Then, when they go to great lengths to promote 150mbps, I'd say that comes pretty close to misrepresentation.

I do take the point about VM not being responsible for the parts of the net outside their network, though.

[AledJ]

Indeed it should, but that was my point. Your course of action is rather determined by what end result you want. One option is the speed you paid for. Another is a good compensating discount until you do. A third option is to be formally moved to a lower speed commensurate with what they can provide. A fourth, if you think you can do better elsewhere, is to be released from the contract.

In ANY of those scenarios, unless they agree to what you want voluntarily, your best bet is to start documenting everything. Detailed notes of phone conversations (date, time, number dialed, identity of person answering, notes on what was discussed/agreed), etc. Better yet, record it. Don't publish the recordings, but for your own records .....

And even better, start doing it in writing, preferably recorded delivery. There will be a complaint process. Follow it. If you are getting jerked about by customer service, ask for a supervisor (good luck with that, by the way, but record that you asked, and what happened).

Ultimately, you're in one of three situations :-

1) They concede, and give you a satisfactory solution, or
2) You give in and give up, or
3) It comes to a fight, and maybe a court case over breach of contract.

Hopefully, you get 1). In which case, problem resolved. Or, you decide it's too much hassle and go for 2), in which case, problem still over.

But if you end up with 3), it is overwhelmingly in your interest to be able to prove two things - first, that you have been reasonable, and patient, and tried to resolve it, and second, that you have carefully documented every step of the way.

There's one more wrinkle.

I can't say about VM, but I have come across companies in the past where a large part of the function of customer service is to deflect customer complaints, and make them go away. And they are often very much aware that many people will blow off steam on the phone, but never get around to actually doing anything concrete beyond that.

There is no universal solution, but my methodology involves trying to resolve things on the phone, but if that doesn't work, I confirm in writing. That does two things - it gives you a formal evidence trail, and it sends a psychological message, you are aren't just giving up. Also, you're following a path they will recognise. My experience is that that is often enough .... assuming I have a good case/argument, of course. If that gets nowhere, my next step is to put cc. <my solicitor's name> on subsequent letters, which is another hint to the path I'm on, and a none-too-subtle one. If that still doesn't do it, a letter from my solicitor so far always has. Of course, that last step costs, and I DO NOT do that for bluster. If I go that far, it's because my solicitor reckons I have a good case, worth pursuing. But that letter, because it costs, sends them an unequivocal message that you aren't just giving up, and costs for them are about to start piling up. So if CS were just blowing you off, that'll stop. At which point, either they give in and you get 1), or you have the written supporting evidence you need for 3).

In any event, you do have the option to allege beach of contract on their part, but if you do, you want to have done everything reasonable to resolve it first, because winning a legal fight may depend on having done so, and that includes following their complaint/dispute procedure.

I have already started to document my calls to VM, along with print outs of speeds test etc. First letter of complain is going off tomorrow with a deadline of two weeks for them to reply, after which as mentioned I will add my Solicitors name to the letter.

Over utilisation at 100gb on a 150mb line. Really????

The way I see it. You are paying for 150mb but getting 10mb. This is well below the minimum working range of the line. As they cannot provide you with the service you pay for, surly they are in breach of contract and shouldn't charge you for a service that they cannot provide.

The 100gb are down to downloading Battlefield 4 and the new Batman game that came with my 980ti. There thinking is they are providing some sort of speed which is enough for them to charge, but I will be on the phone again next week to get more money off for September!

I pay more than that for,Zen Ftc at about 50mbs

I don't get anywhere close to 100gig download

Do virgin shape their traffic? I mean....maybe you'd,get a,good speed if you downloaded,less?

My parents-in-law have just,moved from adsl at under 1mbs (zero chance of BT upgrading the service....virgin dominate the area) to virgin fibre at 55mbs. However....upload is 3...which must be an attempt at prevention of,file sharing I guess. Not that they do or even know what it is...but it does slow down email sends relative to received abd I was surprised by the,limit myself so Virgin must shape in some way

Zak it has nothing to do with how much I have downloaded (and I normally dont download that much), when i get home i only see 10mb no higher. on the weekend it might peak to 80mb for a very short time. My ping in mutiplayer games jumps around all over the place leading to me being kicked from some servers.

[abaxas]

VM could easily supply 150mps garenteed but the extra two 00s at the end of the monthly cost might put you off!

[AledJ]

Then, when they go to great lengths to promote 150mbps, I'd say that comes pretty close to misrepresentation.

I do take the point about VM not geing responsible for the parts of the net outside their network, though.

Every time I speak to them about reducing my bill I remind them that they are the ones at fault, and will keep doing so until they fix the issue! I have no problem paying £41 and getting 140+Mbps.