Unofficial Hexus Brexit Straw Poll - In, Out, Undecided?

[jim]

Interesting. So it's the older members of the populace that are more pro Brexit. Not a surprise because IIRC 65% of UKIP voters are white male pensioners.

So, not content for continuously voting in governments that "spend now, save nothing for later" and leaving the next generation to pick up the debt and finance their "triple lock" pensions...

As it happens, when I last spoke to my grandfather on the phone, he asked me what I thought about the referendum, and how I was going to vote.

Paraphrasing a bit, he said: 'I won't be around to see the outcome of the referendum, so I'll use my vote to achieve whatever is the best outcome for your generation.'

[Smudger]

EU membership for a new state would have to be applied for.

On the other hand, I think it's more likely the opposite will occur, in which case Hexus can easily separate from the UK and get its wish

I'm near St Albans, and I know some builders, I can get you a wall knocked up in no time. Mates rates, etc...

[Macman]

As it happens, when I last spoke to my grandfather on the phone, he asked me what I thought about the referendum, and how I was going to vote.

Paraphrasing a bit, he said: 'I won't be around to see the outcome of the referendum, so I'll use my vote to achieve whatever is the best outcome for your generation.'

Respect.

[kalniel]

I'm near St Albans, and I know some builders, I can get you a wall knocked up in no time. Mates rates, etc...

I shall make no comment about sink holes

[Smudger]

Shhh. People had forgotten about that.

Apart from the ones that live in that street, of course.

[scaryjim]

As it happens, when I last spoke to my grandfather on the phone, he asked me what I thought about the referendum, and how I was going to vote.

Paraphrasing a bit, he said: 'I won't be around to see the outcome of the referendum, so I'll use my vote to achieve whatever is the best outcome for your generation.'

Have to say your grandfather seemed like a solid bloke when I met him; very decent. If only it was easier to determine what would be the best outcome...

EDIT: heh, passing thought - how are the pans treating you? Getting plenty of use out of them?

[outwar6010]

The tories are trying hard to get the human rights act and generally have been well......tories. I think we need eu protections as a safety net in case the tories get in power after this and do more tory stuff.

[big_hairy_rob]

I suppose that this is missing an "Eligible ti vote and will vote" vs "Eligible to vote and will not vote".

Whether I choose to vote is almost as crucial as which way I would actually vote...

[Ferral]

I firmly believe that as a nation we are better staying in, I feel the pro's far outweigh the cons

[EndlessWaves]

There is a lot of people talking about getting control back from the European overlords.... from my perspective I would prefer the limitations, protections and standards that the EU brings with it.

I think a lot of the EU decisions seem arbitrary because there's next to no coverage of them from the UK media. Something like the Port Talbot brouhaha got lots of coverage, but there was very little on the decision to allow third parties to re-sell software licences. While I don't have the numbers I suspect software is a much bigger industry to the UK than steel.

I'm all for international co-operation, free trade zones, open borders and just about every other co-operative treaty negotiated between governments.

The autonomous bodies capable of making/interpreting laws on their own? I'm not against them in principle, but they need to be much better integrated and reported on in the UK if they're going to continue to be a condition for participating in the EU.

I voted Undecided, but I'd probably vote in.

[DanceswithUnix]

So, not content for continuously voting in governments that "spend now, save nothing for later" and leaving the next generation to pick up the debt and finance their "triple lock" pensions.

To be fair plenty of the governments voted in said they weren't going to do that. But they were politicians, they lied.

The younger generations have only known European membership and the federal Europe dream. I wonder if the issue here is that older people remember the common market, pensioners remember our entry to the EU, they have seen not just where we are now but that long view shows the direction we traveled.

My worry is the tighter integration towards Federation, Europe can only really work if it goes the way of America with central control setting overall fiscal policy and individual states losing a lot of their independence. Would be lovely if it worked, but can it work, and do I want to be part of that experiment? Honestly don't know, so still undecided.

[peterb]

To be fair plenty of the governments voted in said they weren't going to do that. But they were politicians, they lied.

The younger generations have only known European membership and the federal Europe dream. I wonder if the issue here is that older people remember the common market, pensioners remember our entry to the EU, they have seen not just where we are now but that long view shows the direction we traveled.

My worry is the tighter integration towards Federation, Europe can only really work if it goes the way of America with central control setting overall fiscal policy and individual states losing a lot of their independence. Would be lovely if it worked, but can it work, and do I want to be part of that experiment? Honestly don't know, so still undecided.

There is a lot of truth in that. The original referendum was all about a common market, the political integration was not discussed.

The plans for European integration go far further than the United States. Each State guards its independence jealously and are pretty much autonomous except for Foreign Policy and defence of the continent. States set their own rates of purchase and income tax and their own fiscal regimes. Members of the armed forces who have to declare a notional State of residence generally choose one where the rates of income tax are low. (In this country that would be called tax avoidance ). States are free to set fiscal policy to boost their individual economies.

Talking of which, it seems that Delaware and Nevada are becoming the two States of choice for businesses and individuals that want to mitigate their tax liabilities, and the US Federal Government is reluctant to sign up to the agreements on tax disclosures for tax havens, according to a report on Radio 4 this morning.

[Andy3536]

I'm not an old pensioner, so i suppose i don't normally fit in with the usual 'out' demographic
I also realise, that my business does alot of it's trade from across the EU, so if the doom sayers are right then i could be out of a job.
It's not going to change my mind though, long term i believe it will be better for us. So that's the way i have to vote.
I don't believe it will be that bad though. Are companys suddenly going to shun us despite the fact that we do good work for them through.......spite? I don't think so.
I also think, to win more people over, the stay campaign needs to change. At the moment there are no 'positive' aspects of being in Europe being championed, it's more about short term economic shock that may not actually be right. They're trying to force a stay vote through fear of the unknown, which isn't the way to run a campaign.

[SeriousSam]

What I find interesting is that when it comes to a particular section of the older generation that I interact with the voting split is approximately 20:1 in favour of Brexit. Now I'm not talking about white, working class males which would be understandable from a nationalism perspective. I am in fact talking about the bowls / golf club set, who have spent time and effort in terms of financial planning.

You would think that the last thing they want is uncertainty wiping large amounts of value of money of their investments etc. However, virtually every single one I have talked to is of the mind "I'll take the hit now, so my kids / grand-kids don't end up in a worse situation". Their reasons for thinking that being in the EU would be worse in the long run did vary, though there was one common thread. The "people" that benefit most from the EU are multinationals as they have the clout to lobby and the resources to implement changes due to legislation. Of course this is somewhat ironic as a lot of them held senior positions in various multinationals.

[jim]

Have to say your grandfather seemed like a solid bloke when I met him; very decent. If only it was easier to determine what would be the best outcome...

Thanks - and yes, absolutely. I'm doing what I can to be well-informed, but my thinking so far is that your opinion will vary somewhat depending on your personal, current circumstances - and that's not a great basis on which to make a choice whose ramifications could be felt for a generation or more. No pressure though, eh?

Where I work, leaving the EU is untenable... but that's not going to be the case for everyone. And, as I said, I would never use that as the basis of my vote, because it's not the point.

EDIT: heh, passing thought - how are the pans treating you? Getting plenty of use out of them?

Indeed, using them at least once a week. Lasagne last week in the large one, some vegetables last night in the small one. Bargainous, I would say

[Saracen]

I firmly believe that as a nation we are better staying in, I feel the pro's far outweigh the cons

And I firmly believe that as a nation we are better getting out, I feel the con's far outweigh the pro's.

So how about neither of us vote, and instead we just go fishing for the day of the referendum. Or better yet, nip over to the Himalayas now, and find a nice, deep cave to hide for for the next couple of months of interminable drivel on TV, radio, etc?