MP Jo Cox (Lab.) Shot and Stabbed

[directhex]

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[directhex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlFnJkLdzWM ..

HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US NOPE NOT AT ALL ALL A SMEAR CAMPAIGN NON-POLITICAL LONER

[Biscuit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlFnJkLdzWM ..

My Irony-O-Meter has gone past the red line.

Why was he carrying around weapons on the streets of a small town in Yorkshire if he wasn't planning on attacking someone?

Honestly I don't care if he was an 'official' member of BF or not, doesn't change what's happened and what it means to the case.

I find it very bizarre that people are trying to sway the opinion of the public away from the idea that this is an act of terror by a white nationalist.

I dont think any of us would argue that Anders Behring Breivik wasn't a a white nationalist terrorist so what does it take to make the distinction? Does it have to be a killing-spree rather than a single murder?

[flearider]

terror no ..it was some white guy killing a women did he know she was an mp prob not .. 5min news story ..
but because of the referendum and because she is an mp .. a 2 week no holds barred news story of right wing this and that ..
and thats all i'm saying .. stir what ya want add what ya want .. killings happen every day and almost never hit the news cycle .. unless they want it to ..
good luck ..
ma'aasalaama

[Biscuit]

terror no ..it was some white guy killing a women did he know she was an mp prob not .. 5min news story ..
but because of the referendum and because she is an mp .. a 2 week no holds barred news story of right wing this and that ..
and thats all i'm saying .. stir what ya want add what ya want .. killings happen every day and almost never hit the news cycle .. unless they want it to ..
good luck ..
ma'aasalaama

Lets presume you're right and it was entirely a co-incidence. Why then, was he carrying a dangerous blade and home-made gun? Why did he say what he did in court?

You cant simply push that aside under the excuse of mental health, It doesn't stack up dude, you have to see that...

[directhex]

You cant simply push that aside under the excuse of mental health, It doesn't stack up dude, you have to see that...

Plus, I'm kinda sick of the "mental health" banner being flown around so much. I'm willing to bet hundreds of people on this forum have mental health issues of one kind or another. Anxiety disorders, depression, bipolar disorder, etc. The difference is they're not also murderers. A generic "mental health mental health" in isolation doesn't make someone a killer. Maybe in combination with being a white supremacist convinced your country is under literal siege, but not in isolation.

[SeriousSam]

Plus, I'm kinda sick of the "mental health" banner being flown around so much. I'm willing to bet hundreds of people on this forum have mental health issues of one kind or another. Anxiety disorders, depression, bipolar disorder, etc. The difference is they're not also murderers. A generic "mental health mental health" in isolation doesn't make someone a killer. Maybe in combination with being a white supremacist convinced your country is under literal siege, but not in isolation.

Every single human being on the planet has the potential to become a killer. Whether or not that happens is down to a combination of factors including biology, state of mind, environment and circumstance. Now the likelihood may range from extremely unlikely to highly probable. However, the Joker's quote from Killing Joke, “All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.” is not far off the truth. Being "civilised" is a much thinner veneer than we care to admit.

Now I don't disagree that there are a wide number of mental health issues which will have little bearing on a person becoming a killer. However, we cannot discount the fact that someone experiencing a "crisis of self" is in a very precarious mental state. At such times the person is stuck in a state of hyper-uncertainty which creates a compulsive need to find certainty. It is a consequence of our animal ancestry in that uncertain can equal death and certain means safe. Where they find said certainty is most often associated with environment and upbringing. To put this into perspective he could just as easily had an evangelical religious conversion under different circumstances. Thus the failure of the mental health system to both recognise this, when he sought help, and provide a more positive outlet is a factor in this scenario. Sadly I'm not surprised as mental health provision in the UK is both woefully unsupported and in a lot of cases seriously lacking in terms knowledge.

[TheAnimus]

Plus, I'm kinda sick of the "mental health" banner being flown around so much. I'm willing to bet hundreds of people on this forum have mental health issues of one kind or another. Anxiety disorders, depression, bipolar disorder, etc. The difference is they're not also murderers. A generic "mental health mental health" in isolation doesn't make someone a killer. Maybe in combination with being a white supremacist convinced your country is under literal siege, but not in isolation.

OK

I'm a bit sick of the way you are acting in this thread tbh, you are normally more rational.

Let's start by talking about other "nut cases", dunblane for example. Was that a terror attack? It could easily be argued yes, but most people would simply say no, it was a nutter. What about Horrett Irving Campbell? The nut case who attacked a bunch of very young children.

The line between just being a nut case and a full blown terrorist is normally one of support. The IRA were in arguably successful terrorists because they were a well organised and funded group.

In the case of the late Jo Cox's attack, the guy clearly has a lot of issues. But is it a full blown terror attack? Well that's hard to say really, no one is listening to his message, the rather undesirable friends he has have publicly condemned his actions.

But what I really dislike is your idea that our media or even a campaign by the Leave lot are in some way to blame. Firstly I've voted Remain before you accuse me of things but there are clear problems that we shouldn't ignore regarding immigration and the EU. Our population has grown again by some 300k due to net migration, people will be finding their culture changing and have a right to express some discontent about that.

To claim that it's stirring up violence is a terrible thing to say. The line between free-speech and hate speech is rather fine and nebulous yes, but if we can't have someone say that they are worried about a governing bodies plan for shifting people across borders then we have little democracy left on an issue that many people are clearly worried about.

We could also then say that Michael Steven Sandford demonstrates we can't print anything critical of that cockwomble Trump. Should the Guardian be banned as hate material?

This to me is why we are calling the guy a nutter, not a terrorist. There is no 'credible ideology' that has professed a desire to create attacks against us for which he is aligned. Contrast that with the murder of Lee Rigby, additionally the vocal support from some groups for the action.

[scaryjim]

... The line between just being a nut case and a full blown terrorist is normally one of support. ...

You should tell the US authorities that. And the media. Omar Mateen was a lone gunman* - no support network. Hasn't stopped the world badging him a terrorist. There's an entire wikipedia page dedicated to terrorists who work without support:

A lone wolf or lone-wolf terrorist is someone who commits violent acts in support of some group, movement, or ideology, but who does so alone, outside of any command structure and without material assistance from any group. Although the lone wolf prepares and acts alone, the perpetrator may be influenced or motivated by the ideology and beliefs of an external group.

I'd say that's a pretty accurate description.

* it appears (after a quick google) that there is now some debate about whether Mateen acted alone or not. However that doesn't change the fact that he was described as a terrorist for several weeks before evidence arose that suggested he wasn't acting alone.

[Bagnaj97]

It seems a lot of people (%46) who support leaving already consider the referendum will be rigged, what's even funnier is that nearly a third think MI5 is in cahoots with the Government to stop Britain leaving the European Union.

I work for a council and I sit in sight of our stationery cupboard. A member of the elections team has just come down and taken all the pens (and is asking around for more) because of the number of complaints about pencils in the polling booths.

Our count is held in a sports centre, there's a public viewing gallery/balcony so anyone is free to watch. Do these paranoid people really think the people doing the count are going to be sat there with rubbers changing people's votes?!

[Corky34]

OK

I'm a bit sick of the way you are acting in this thread tbh, you are normally more rational.
<Snip>

Have i missed something? I can't see where in the post you quoted from directhex that mentions terrorism. To me what (s)he posted seemed to be saying not to blame this guys actions on him being mentally unwell, something I'd personally agree with.

[TheAnimus]

You should tell the US authorities that. And the media. Omar Mateen was a lone gunman* - no support network. Hasn't stopped the world badging him a terrorist. There's an entire wikipedia page dedicated to terrorists who work without support:

Because sadly, there is a non insignificant group of people that support him. That agree with the same ideology.

[Biscuit]

I work for a council and I sit in sight of our stationery cupboard. A member of the elections team has just come down and taken all the pens (and is asking around for more) because of the number of complaints about pencils in the polling booths.

Our count is held in a sports centre, there's a public viewing gallery/balcony so anyone is free to watch. Do these paranoid people really think the people doing the count are going to be sat there with rubbers changing people's votes?!

Apparently so... The conspiracies are mind boggling

[TooNice]

It's a great way to edge your bet. If Brexit win, those who say that it's rigged etc. will look a bit silly but know that they won the fight that matters. If Brexit lose, they get to say "I told you so". It's win/consolation win with only their online credibility on the line. Bargain!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The murderer just got a full life term:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-jo-cox-murder
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38079594

Edit!!

Pictures inside his home:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/224493...mist-murderer/

Shows he had a lot of Nazi/SS literature and magazines and booklets on eugenics.

[outwar6010]

The daily fail have actually framed the murderer's motivation, as being afraid that refugees would take his house and the Jo Cox wouldn't help him.