Almost There! Hexus EU Referendum Straw Poll #2

[Saracen]

Remain. If Gove and Johnson weren't good enough reasons to vote the opposite then I don't know what us

I'll see your Gove/Johnson, and raise you Cameron, Osborne, Corbyn, Gordon Brown, Mandelson, Juncker et. al.

And for a knockout, Tony Blair.

[Galant]

Massively important point. It's not about any one policy point or choice but the future of policy making, and the shape, and power and process.

[aramil]

Already voted.

Out.

(Postal vote) ������

[SeriousSam]

I may not have changed my mind on Leave, but I will admit that some of the things I thought about the EU where not quite as accurate as I like. Of course the really depressing thing is that I had to spend many hours digging through information on the internet in order to get a more accurate picture. Both sides of the campaign have been woeful in terms of the quality of debate.

If you need something to put yourself to sleep tonight I've "summarised" my views in the attached. Trust me I could have written a LOT more

http://wolffortue.wordpress.com/2016...he-old-in-out/

[Saracen]

Both sides of the campaign have been woeful in terms of the quality of debate.

Quoted For Truth.


And nominated for the Quote of the Referendum Gold Medal.

'scude the blasphemy, but Jesus H. Christ, has the standard stunk!

[Zak33]

(Serious Sam.. great blog post bud.)

I'm REMAIN .....

but you know what?.. I don't care if everyone votes LEAVE and we do.

I just want it OVER because the retail world is dying on it's ARSE and it's the uncertainty causing it.

ONCE it's done.. either way.. people can get on with dealing with it.

right now... utter bloody madness of nil decision making

[Corky34]

Besides, we already have the ECtHR to handle human rights issues and don't need ECJ judges self-appointing themselves to do it, especially when we were told, no, promised, that the Fundamental Charter DOES NOT apply to us only for those judges to decide, off their own bat, that it does.

I'm not going to change your mind as at this stage i think most people have already decided one way or the other, but IIRC one of the things in the Conservative manifesto was that they wanted to scrap the Human Rights Act, I've not looked into how that ties into the ECtHR or even if it has any relation to it, just thought it worth mentioning.

Massively important point. It's not about any one policy point or choice but the future of policy making, and the shape, and power and process.

Like i said I'm probably not going to change anyone's mind at this late stage but it's worth saying the treaty of Lisbon reformed the EU so powers could be repatriated to nation states, I've not looked into how that's done or if any powers have been repatriated but the EU and the nations that make it up certainly could if they wanted.

[Spud1]

Very much still Remain, and there is little that would convince me short of some solid evidence that it would be better for the world as a whole.

I personally am very much in favour of a "United states of Europe" approach, leading one day to an "earth gov" type system..not that either are likely to happen in my lifetime mind. There is a lot wrong with the EU, but you don't fix things from the outside, and with the current state of world politics I cannot see how leaving would make the situation any better.

I've not heard a single, convincing, positive reason to leave the EU as yet, but there are so many to remain. The lies on deceit on both sides of the debate really wind me up too, but I tend to hear more blatant obvious lies from the leave side (e.g. this 350 million figure, and the idea that the EU is undemocratic etc). I do accept that I am heavily biased though so I am sure there are similar silly claims on the remain side.

On a more basic financial level, it also seems crazy to me that we are a country in such a huge amount of debt and are potentially about to take a humongous financial risk. The practical cost of leaving the EU alone is huge (by that I mean the time and money spent on negotiations and the process itself) - and that isn't something in debate - and then the risk to the economy (which *is* in debate) and right now it just doesn't seem sensible.

I really hope that we remain, as otherwise I have a huge decision ahead of me about whether I stay in the UK. I've no interest in being part of a country that votes to leave.

[Galant]

Like i said I'm probably not going to change anyone's mind at this late stage but it's worth saying the treaty of Lisbon reformed the EU so powers could be repatriated to nation states, I've not looked into how that's done or if any powers have been repatriated but the EU and the nations that make it up certainly could if they wanted.

I remain open to being swayed. As others have mentioned, the mis-information and nonsense in this 'debate' have been horrible and it's been an education looking into how it all works. I've always leaned towards the 'leave' side but I've had a few moments in this process where I've been uncertain, pragmatic ones more than principled.

However, one thing that I think is 100% clear and should be 100% understood by everyone voting in this referendum is that any notion of repatriation or a status-quo vote on the remain side is an unreality. It won't happen. Words and papers aside the reason this is the case is that it goes against the entire philosophy and raison d'etre of the EU. It is 100% guaranteed that one certainty of the EU is that of more EU, never less. More power, more control, to Brussels. There's a quote on a wall of one of their buildings that goes against the whole notion of individual nation states. A single EU is 100%, no doubt, the aim of the EU.

Now, you might like that idea, might think it's what's needed. Fine. Vote remain. But do so for that reason, not blindly hoping that it might not be. It's what the EU is, the purpose from the beginning. There is no other EU, at all, none. Vote to remain is not a vote to remain the same. It's a vote to remain on the EU train - destination unification.

Here's that image and quote on the wall of the vistor's centre of the EU Parliament in Brussels:

[Phage]

From someone who IS qualified to hold an informed opinion.

One of the UK’s leading EU law experts criticizes the referendum debate’s “dishonesty on an industrial scale”, as he considers the claims and counter claims from each side.

University of Liverpool Law School’s Professor Michael Dougan has spent his career studying EU law as it relates to the UK; contributing to Parliamentary Select Committees, advising government and now helping media fact check the barrage of assertions emanating from the Remain and Leave camps, in the run up to June 23.

https://www.facebook.com/Universityo...3361974024537/

[Phage]

(Serious Sam.. great blog post bud.)

I'm REMAIN .....

but you know what?.. I don't care if everyone votes LEAVE and we do.

I just want it OVER because the retail world is dying on it's ARSE and it's the uncertainty causing it.

ONCE it's done.. either way.. people can get on with dealing with it.

right now... utter bloody madness of nil decision making

I haven't had any work for months due to the uncertainty

[Spud1]

Kind of a related question I have been pondering. Given the passions of this debate and how bitter it has gotten on both sides - is anyone expecting any rioting/unrest on Friday? I kind of am to be honest, likely more so if it is a remain vote (although that is a gut feeling and is probably grossly unfair), but curious on

[Phage]

Quite an insight into your world view that.
- The answer is no, nothing, nada, not a sausage

[Andy3536]

Kind of a related question I have been pondering. Given the passions of this debate and how bitter it has gotten on both sides - is anyone expecting any rioting/unrest on Friday? I kind of am to be honest, likely more so if it is a remain vote (although that is a gut feeling and is probably grossly unfair), but curious on

I don't think so. Despite what's being thrown at the media from both sides. Everything still goes on, people still need to go to work. And lets face it, getting up, feeling a little disappointed before work is a normal part of most peoples day anyway ;-)
I can't see any unrest happening.

[Spud1]

To clarify - one of the main reasons why I suggest that any unrest would likely be due to a remain vote as opposed to leave, is that "remain" is very much what the establishment is recommending and I fully expect many cries of foul play if the government "wins" this and gets the remain vote. Not because I think leave voters are in general that way inclined!

I know a lot of people who are voting to leave purely as a protest to the government, and as a minimum there will be outrage among many leave supporters even if it doesn't lead to anything more than verbal/written comment.

[Biscuit]

Rupert Murdoch wants to leave.

I need little more information to convince me of a remain decision than that.