Britain is doomed!! (How is that going to affect you)

[Mama Sumae]

The possibility of leaving the EU (and yesterday's vote results) does little to surprise or even concern me tbh, on the other hand the idea of the UK fully leaving the EEA (or someone voting based on arguments that require that) is nothing but absurd to me.

Therefore I couldn't and still cannot see this referendum as nothing more than bargaining power for the process of leaving the EU while maintaining a strong EEA presence, and it could hardly come at a better time when the markets are just about pretending to forget how bad the economy of some EU members states really is.

Another conjecture and the EU would surely be keen to show complete intransigence to any exit aspirations with "benefits", right now I am not too sure they can afford (particularly considering the importance of the UK to Portugal's and Spain's economy) or even desire to drag the issue too long.


Obviously the importance of the EU to the British economy is just as important to the negotiation table, but the British government is now absolutely obliged to respect the British's people democratic decision.

Any expected efforts in coming months to redefine the meaning of the word "leave" in most English dictionaries to "the best possible deal" and drop some of the arguments of this referendum is purely coincidental.




Or perhaps I am totally wrong and should be completely terrified right about now.

[Corky34]

The point is that we gain more control over our own nation.
<Snip>

That's not how i see things, we aren't going to get a say in whose going to PM for the next 3 years, we won't get a say in any of the terms of this divorce, in any trade deals, in who the tax rises are going to hit, or in the cuts to public services. Mr Cameron said in his speech that he's going to try his best to steady the ship and that's he's not the one to steer the ship on its new course, the thing is we're going to have no say on how the steadying of the ship is done, who the new captains going to be and what direction he takes us.

All of us should see this and consider what we want to see. And then it will be about influence. Not just trying to influence politicians directly, but influencing one another, the community, engaging together to change the national 'climate' on different issues. It's an internal process of establishing the national identity.

I'd be more interested in what the rest of the world wants to see and how they influence things, it's great to have this new found community spirit but no matter how much we try to influence things on a local level it's not going to influence international relations.

[Andy3536]

The first quote is going to pee off a number of people - heard a reasonable number of the older folk locally saying they were voting leave so it would stop all migration here.

Nobody is going to think migration would stop completely, migration at '0' ...... I think that's a case of you catching half a conversation or taking a phrase out of context tbh.
The conservative party were elected on a promise of getting migration below 100,000. That's not a unreasonable figure at all.

[Phage]

When's my new hospital arriving ? One a week they said.....

[Corky34]

The conservative party were elected on a promise of getting migration below 100,000. That's not a unreasonable figure at all.

It is when you consider that even without EU migration it still wouldn't be bellow 100k, in fact migration from outside the EU is running at almost 200k so even if we slammed the door shut on EU migrants they'd still be way over their promised migration below 100k.

TBH I always thought the migration argument was rather weak as non-EU migration is higher than EU migrants, and EU migrants contributed more to the UK economy than non-EU migrants, if it was down to me (from a strictly economic view) i would've slammed the door shut on people from outside the EU.

[Galant]

That's not how i see things, we aren't going to get a say in whose going to PM for the next 3 years, we won't get a say in any of the terms of this divorce, in any trade deals, in who the tax rises are going to hit, or in the cuts to public services. Mr Cameron said in his speech that he's going to try his best to steady the ship and that's he's not the one to steer the ship on its new course, the thing is we're going to have no say on how the steadying of the ship is done, who the new captains going to be and what direction he takes us.



I'd be more interested in what the rest of the world wants to see and how they influence things, it's great to have this new found community spirit but no matter how much we try to influence things on a local level it's not going to influence international relations.

What's your definition of having a say, and influence? A general election? Another referendum?

Much of the work in pursuing this referendum began years ago. People forming groups, organisations, looking to find a way to get a referendum.

Politics and democracy isn't just about the 'macro'.

Talk to people. Write to your MP. In fact, schedule a visit. Raise communication in your community, or seek out like minded individuals. Group together.

In the age of email and social media we have no ends of tools to facilitate it.

Speak to people, get your voice heard, that's how this even came about.

[jimbouk]

Back to the original question.

Myself, hopefully should effect my job or company. The work my department does is mostly national and the company is international so should weather this OK. Though I had Friday off so don't know if I've missed any panic statements by the management.

My partner - they've already has a crisis Q&A with the CEO as a large chunk of funding comes from the EU. In the short term with the pound weakening that's a real term budget cut. Drastic but in simplistic terms a 5% drop is 1 in 20 staff member being made redundent, 10% is 1 in 10. Don't know how this is going to pan out over the next 2 years. Longer term who can say at the time - we're not exactly a cash rich country who are going to be able to just redirect all the EU budget to things funded by it.

Longer term, we've discussed moving to Scotland before as we both like it - now there's a push as well as a pull. Not doing anything rash, but rather than spending money doing up our house over the next year this will just be put away to fund a move if Indyref2 goes ahead and we can find jobs. If she does lose her job then it's a no brainer.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nobody is going to think migration would stop completely, migration at '0' ...... I think that's a case of you catching half a conversation or taking a phrase out of context tbh.
The conservative party were elected on a promise of getting migration below 100,000. That's not a unreasonable figure at all.

They were older folk who said all immigration was a mistake. I heard the entire conversations,as the blasted buses round here tend to have a 50% chance of being late(although this about par for most places I have lived in). Heard on at least two occasions where you had these older folk talking to younger people(I assumed neighbours or younger friends) who in the latter case said we still need certain people of skill sets from abroad anyway so you still need migrants(or there will always be some migration). Even had one who said ,hopefully including those "****ing Asians" . Yet,Asians have been here since the late 40s onwards. It was even more ironic,since on that occasion the bus driver was an Asian who was probably in his late 50s or early 60s.

Now,if you don't want to believe what I heard,then that is your choice 100% TBH!

There are people who are going to get peed off,by these later statements now as they probably have not realised leaving the EU at best only covers migrants from the EU,not all the others who originate from outside the EU. Plus this country is still going to see EU migration anyway.

Remember,the previous waves of migration before we joined the EU?? The last set were Asians and Afro Carribean people who were immigrants from English speaking ex commonwealth countries with parallel British style education systems, and we pretty much had people like Enoch Power playing populist politics with his "Rivers of Blood" speech and this was with the UK "controlling its borders". At the same time many of his supporters at the time probably did not realise he had been involved in actively recruiting people from the sub-continent anyway.

The same as the £350 million figure too - we had the red campaign bus through here too. Even Farage is mocking the figure from the rest of the Leave campaign now,but made sure he was quiet when it was active.

It is interesting to see how the Tories will fare in the next few years - wonder if we will have a swing back to Labour at the next general election(probably will have a new Labour leader by then anyway).

[Corky34]

What's your definition of having a say, and influence? A general election? Another referendum?

You tell me, you were the one to bring up the whole "we gain more control over our own nation" thing, i just highlighted how it doesn't seem that way to me, maybe you'd care to point out where you disagree with my assessment though as obviously you believe we've gained more control over our nation.

Much of the work in pursuing this referendum began years ago. People forming groups, organisations, looking to find a way to get a referendum.

Politics and democracy isn't just about the 'macro'.

Talk to people. Write to your MP. In fact, schedule a visit. Raise communication in your community, or seek out like minded individuals. Group together.

In the age of email and social media we have no ends of tools to facilitate it.

Speak to people, get your voice heard, that's how this even came about.

Indeed, but how exactly do you expect to get that voice heard going forward? I mean in the last GE 13% of the population vote for UKIP and that resulted in one MP being elected, how exactly is that going to get your voice heard going forward.

[Galant]

You tell me, you were the one to bring up the whole "we gain more control over our own nation" thing, i just highlighted how it doesn't seem that way to me, maybe you'd care to point out where you disagree with my assessment though as obviously you believe we've gained more control over our nation.



Indeed, but how exactly do you expect to get that voice heard going forward? I mean in the last GE 13% of the population vote for UKIP and that resulted in one MP being elected, how exactly is that going to get your voice heard going forward.

I already have. You form groups, organisations, talk and write to your MP, you do the same things that resulted in this EU referendum being called. You gather support for ideas, you talk to political parties, you work to be an influence. It's a constant process. An internal process of changing the identity of the nation. It requires energy and commitment.

[Corky34]

I already have. You form groups, organisations, talk and write to your MP, you do the same things that resulted in this EU referendum being called. You gather support for ideas, you talk to political parties, you work to be an influence. It's a constant process. An internal process of changing the identity of the nation. It requires energy and commitment.

No you haven't, you've laid out how your going to *try* to gain more control, not how you're *actually* going to gain more control.

How is forming groups, organisations, talking and writing to my MP going to gain me control of whose going to PM for the next 3 years, how's it going to get me a say in any of the terms of this divorce, in any trade deals, in who the tax rises are going to hit, or in the cuts to public services, how's it *actually* going to allow me to gain control over the BofE and that £250bn that got pumped into the market yesterday to prevent a crash.

[Galant]

No you haven't, you've laid out how your going to *try* to gain more control, not how you're *actually* going to gain more control.

How is forming groups, organisations, talking and writing to my MP going to gain me control of whose going to PM for the next 3 years, how's it going to get me a say in any of the terms of this divorce, in any trade deals, in who the tax rises are going to hit, or in the cuts to public services, how's it *actually* going to allow me to gain control over the BofE and that £250bn that got pumped into the market yesterday to prevent a crash.

I've given you the example of how this referendum came about. Here:
http://www.peoplespledge.org/
http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/

Or take a look at how people through history have acted to make changes in society.

[Corky34]

You seem to be missing the point, I'm asking you *how* this newly found control over our own nation is going to be put to use, *how's* it going to gain me control of whose going to PM for the next 3 years, *how's* it going to get me a say in any of the terms of this divorce, in any trade deals, in who the tax rises are going to hit, or in the cuts to public services.

You've basically traded one set or masters for another, you've gained no more control over your own affairs than you had yesterday, if anything you've got less control over your own affairs than you had before, or do you think 1 MP being elected on 13% of the popular vote, and 5% resulting in 56 MPs, do you really think that sort of system has given you more control?

[Andy3536]

It is when you consider that even without EU migration it still wouldn't be bellow 100k, in fact migration from outside the EU is running at almost 200k so even if we slammed the door shut on EU migrants they'd still be way over their promised migration below 100k.

TBH I always thought the migration argument was rather weak as non-EU migration is higher than EU migrants, and EU migrants contributed more to the UK economy than non-EU migrants, if it was down to me (from a strictly economic view) i would've slammed the door shut on people from outside the EU.

The point is, now migration is the sole responsibility of the party governing the country. They'll put what they want to achieve in their manifesto and you can vote on that. If they get it wrong, or don't achieve those goals. Vote for someone else. But they are accountable for what they say. That discussion will also be reopened every 5 years.
Migration from outside the EU should always be higher, given the large communities already here with family ties in India, Pakistan, Australia, New Zealand etc. We should have always have been looking there and to other commonwealth countries for positive migration anyway. But now, those policies can be talked about aswell as numbers.

[Andy3536]

They were older folk who said all immigration was a mistake. I heard the entire conversations,as the blasted buses round here tend to have a 50% chance of being late(although this about par for most places I have lived in). Heard on at least two occasions where you had these older folk talking to younger people(I assumed neighbours or younger friends) who in the latter case said we still need certain people of skill sets from abroad anyway so you still need migrants(or there will always be some migration). Even had one who said ,hopefully including those "****ing Asians" . Yet,Asians have been here since the late 40s onwards. It was even more ironic,since on that occasion the bus driver was an Asian who was probably in his late 50s or early 60s.

Now,if you don't want to believe what I heard,then that is your choice 100% TBH!

There are people who are going to get peed off,by these later statements now as they probably have not realised leaving the EU at best only covers migrants from the EU,not all the others who originate from outside the EU. Plus this country is still going to see EU migration anyway.

Remember,the previous waves of migration before we joined the EU?? The last set were Asians and Afro Carribean people who were immigrants from English speaking ex commonwealth countries with parallel British style education systems, and we pretty much had people like Enoch Power playing populist politics with his "Rivers of Blood" speech and this was with the UK "controlling its borders". At the same time many of his supporters at the time probably did not realise he had been involved in actively recruiting people from the sub-continent anyway.

The same as the £350 million figure too - we had the red campaign bus through here too. Even Farage is mocking the figure from the rest of the Leave campaign now,but made sure he was quiet when it was active.

It is interesting to see how the Tories will fare in the next few years - wonder if we will have a swing back to Labour at the next general election(probably will have a new Labour leader by then anyway).

I'll take that at face value, that's fair enough. But it's not 'typical'

TBH, i'm seeing things very differently. I come from an area that voted a long way in favor of leaving, everyone i work with voted out bar 1. And (if the pessimists are to be believed)there could be serious implications for that as we are a European warranty center for a large international company.
But, some decisions are more important than money, more important than a few percentage points of GDP. Most people seem to be really happy, and cautiously optimistic.
But, then again. That's probably to be expected from an area that voted out by such a margin, and many of the surrounding areas are voting out to an even greater margin.

[Biscuit]

Genuine question for all the people who voted leave.

What would it take for you to conclude that it was a mistake to leave?

Just to be clear, this isn't a trap or trick question which I'm going to pounce on when you give an answer, I genuinely want to know the furthest parameters of the relatively inevitable dip in our countries prosperity that you would feel is an acceptable level for the hope of a better future.