Is this a real thing?

[big_hairy_rob]

Depends what result you're after. Remember most people educated by the current system voted remain, while those from a much older system voted leave. If you want a different result from the current system it would presumably have created more leave voters

Maybe, or maybe not. Though it may have convinced a higher proportion of younger people to actually form an opinion and get to the polling stations? Or shall we all just blame e4 for not having another hiatus?

[TooNice]

The current education system is setup to reward the regurgitation of spoon-fed information, to ensure that they hit centrally appointed target.

If that is the goal, then it is yet another thing we aren't doing a very good job at Education in Asia (and I am not just talking central Asia) focus far more a lot more on rote learning and students there tend to be far better at. I'd point to that BBC program where they had some Chinese teachers (try to) teach some students here, but I think that it is something you can observe in a class with lots of international students.

And ironically, I know a number of parents from Asia send their kids to schools / unis in the UK because they believe that Western education promotes and develop critical thinking and believe in it's benefit. I guess that belief is also misplaced then.

Ah well, seems like it's one disappointment after another. Anyone got some good news to share about the UK. Preferably something concrete. Even something about an off-duty fireman saving a kitten stuck in a tree or something would do.

[big_hairy_rob]

We have a number of Out voters here who actually voted without knowing what the EU actually is.
I think things were further spoiled by not having the option to exit the EU without exiting the EEC.

We probably have equal numbers blindly voting either way (or even abstaining) with the same level of understanding.

[big_hairy_rob]

If that is the goal, then it is yet another thing we aren't doing a very good job at Education in Asia (and I am not just talking central Asia) focus far more a lot more on rote learning and students there tend to be far better at. I'd point to that BBC program where they had some Chinese teachers (try to) teach some students here, but I think that it is something you can observe in a class with lots of international students.

And ironically, I know a number of parents from Asia send their kids to schools / unis in the UK because they believe that Western education promotes and develop critical thinking and believe in it's benefit. I guess that belief is also misplaced then.

Ah well, seems like it's one disappointment after another. Anyone got some good news to share about the UK. Preferably something concrete. Even something about an off-duty fireman saving a kitten stuck in a tree or something would do.

Another end of the spectrum is the American education system where people are taught critical thinking and presentation, often at the expense of factual subjects. The masses who are often naive to geography, history or politics from outside of their country, but one in which the majority believe that they can make a difference on voting day.

Maybe we should just replace BBC news with 'Cute Kitten' videos?

[DanceswithUnix]

Maybe we should just replace BBC news with 'Cute Kitten' videos?

Kids watch YouTube instead of TV, they are way ahead of you

[Saracen]

Have you ever tried telling telling an elderly person anything? You don't tell them you ask them politely while showing some respect, otherwise you're liable to get a disproving look, or worse yet get whacked with a walking stick or handbag.

A bit of a generalisation that, but perhaps they're thinking that when they worked out for themselves decades earlier the pearl of wisdom that some young enthusiast discovered last week, a bit less patronising might be in order. Still, it's usually good to let the young educate us in what we alreafy knew, while they still think they know it all.

Yeah, old people can be cantankerous and short-tempered. So will you be when all your joints hurt, your bowels have a vicious sense of humour, and you've had a couple of decades of young people treating you like an idiot.


PS. One sign of growing wisdom is realising just how much you don't know .... including that all the tricks youngsters use to keep parents in the dark as to what they're up to are no surprise, because their parents were doing all that twenty or thirty years earlier trying to confuse their parents .... who didn't buy it either.

The look on young people's faces when it finally dawns on them that the oldies knew what they were up to the whole time but just went along with the charade, is priceless.

[scaryjim]

We probably have equal numbers blindly voting either way (or even abstaining) with the same level of understanding.

Not quite. It's a poll, so not definitive, but the more attention people pay to politics the more likely they are to vote Remain: http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06...voted-and-why/ - people who pay little to no attention to politics are more likely to vote Leave (58%). By the time you get up to paying lots of attention it's pulled back to 50/50. From which we can infer a) that it's a complex subject and there's no obvious right or wrong answer to EU membership for the UK, and perhaps b) that the balance of the referendum was tilted by voters who usually pay little to no attention to politics...

There's a huge number of other comparisons in there, but the most striking of them are the 'attitude' ones. (I'm not going to embed the huge image, but here's a link: http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-cont...ll-vs-Good.jpg). Essentially, if you think any of multi-culturalism, social liberalism, feminism, the Green movement, globalisation, immigration, or the internet for frick's sake, are "a force for ill", you're significantly more likely to vote out.

And people wonder why many Remainers regard the Leave vote as regressive and bigoted. Sure, #NotAllLeavers, but...

[TooNice]

I think things were further spoiled by not having the option to exit the EU without exiting the EEC.

I wonder what the result would have been if the option had been there. I recall another poll (yes, another one of those) taken before the results, where people were asked if, in the event of a Brexit win, they would have been in favour of a "Norway-style deal", and it was a large majority 'Yes' from remain voters, and slight majority 'No' from the Brexit camp. I suspect that it probably would have split the Brexit camp more than the Remain camp who would probably see more as a consolation / compromise rather than their first choice.. whereas I was actually a bit surprised that it was so close on the Brexit side.

[Gerrard]

Are people who voted LEAVE really saying "I didn't think it would really happen... I only voted that as a protest vote.. I didn't mean it?"

???

Going by the response from the people who ran the campaign, I wouldn't be surprised if they also said it!

[Corky34]

A bit of a generalisation that....

It was also meant to be said jokingly, apologises if it didn't come across like that...now excuse me I've got some kids to shout at for treading on my blooming lawn.

[Tumble]

I'm curious, by posting that. Your clearly implying that certain people that live in this country arn't entitled to have a vote. Mabee you'd like to tell us who and why? Just so we're clear?

I *think* (YOMV), the point is that everyone's entitled to vote, but perhaps some people haven't got the wit to do it properly, or they aren't familiar with how a democratic voting system actually works....

[big_hairy_rob]

Not quite. It's a poll, so not definitive, but the more attention people pay to politics the more likely they are to vote Remain: http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06...voted-and-why/ - people who pay little to no attention to politics are more likely to vote Leave (58%). By the time you get up to paying lots of attention it's pulled back to 50/50. From which we can infer a) that it's a complex subject and there's no obvious right or wrong answer to EU membership for the UK, and perhaps b) that the balance of the referendum was tilted by voters who usually pay little to no attention to politics...

Did I miss the disclaimer on area Bias? Doesn't seem to report the areas that the people providing the data came from or how they were selected?

Likewise the overall result seems to suggest a leaning towards the educated and those with at least a moderate understanding of the EU most affecting the overall result, otherwise the average should have been higher.

[Corky34]

Did I miss the disclaimer on area Bias? Doesn't seem to report the areas that the people providing the data came from or how they were selected?

Likewise the overall result seems to suggest a leaning towards the educated and those with at least a moderate understanding of the EU most affecting the overall result, otherwise the average should have been higher.

I think that info's available in the full report that you can download at the bottom of the page.

[wazzickle]

At the risk of reducing a complex problem to risqué language, age is bollocks. We massively overestimate the effect of experience. As a race and as individuals we continually repeat our mistakes and fail to learn from them. 2000 steps forward, 1999 steps back. Age may give more experience, but it tends to solidify our viewpoints. As children we are open to new ideas, and recognise that many around us know more, so tend to listen to others. When we get older, we see things that validate our beliefs, surround ourselves with like-minded people, and ignore evidence that runs counter to our beliefs. On top of that, we have a wide variety of defence mechanisms and cognitive biases that serve to entrench ourselves further. We pardon the older generation - for good reason - when they're openly racist or homophobic, for example. In 20 years time, I hope I will be wiser, and I probably will be, but not by as much as I think I will be.

In this particular situation, the young have a comparably tiny chance of getting on the housing ladder, have to pay a significantly higher proportion of their wages just to afford housing, and a whole host of sociological effects that we don't fully understand that have happened as a result of the incredibly rapid movement of technology into all our lives. Meanwhile, the older generation keep on whipping out their experience and disowning their complicity in the struggles the young and future generations will face, e.g. climate change.

[scaryjim]

... Likewise the overall result seems to suggest a leaning towards the educated and those with at least a moderate understanding of the EU most affecting the overall result, otherwise the average should have been higher.

Remember those graphs are voting intentions of particular groups - that is, they don't tell you anything about the breakdown of the total of Leave or Remain voters. The groups indicated aren't necessarily equally sized, or representative of the population as a whole. What they do show is where there is a large difference in voting intention of people with a particular attitude or outlook. So people who think immigration is bad (m'kay) were overwhelmingly more likely to vote Leave. But that might be a small proportion of voters - it might be that most people don't really care about immigration.

What it really shows is which groups of people will see the Leave vote as a big win.

[SeriousSam]

At the risk of reducing a complex problem to risqué language, age is bollocks. We massively overestimate the effect of experience. As a race and as individuals we continually repeat our mistakes and fail to learn from them. 2000 steps forward, 1999 steps back. Age may give more experience, but it tends to solidify our viewpoints. As children we are open to new ideas, and recognise that many around us know more, so tend to listen to others. When we get older, we see things that validate our beliefs, surround ourselves with like-minded people, and ignore evidence that runs counter to our beliefs. On top of that, we have a wide variety of defence mechanisms and cognitive biases that serve to entrench ourselves further. We pardon the older generation - for good reason - when they're openly racist or homophobic, for example. In 20 years time, I hope I will be wiser, and I probably will be, but not by as much as I think I will be.

In this particular situation, the young have a comparably tiny chance of getting on the housing ladder, have to pay a significantly higher proportion of their wages just to afford housing, and a whole host of sociological effects that we don't fully understand that have happened as a result of the incredibly rapid movement of technology into all our lives. Meanwhile, the older generation keep on whipping out their experience and disowning their complicity in the struggles the young and future generations will face, e.g. climate change.

The growing rise in "no platforming" in UK Universities would seem to undermine your point about youth being more open minded. Furthermore age can teach you one critical thing... intentionally creating meaningful change is a lot harder than you think, especially when everything comes down to humanity lurching from one crisis to the next in a blind panic.