Now that the dust is begining to settle... what do you want from UK / EU treaty

[TooNice]

Control does effectively mean that you -could- close the tap all together. Though it is only -one- way to apply control, the arguments put forth by the brexit camp goal clearly imply a desire to reduce, not to maintain or increase net immigration.

[OilSheikh]

I want
No Europeans in the country to be given automatic British citizenships. Any amount of years they have stayed here should be equal to nowt. They ALL need to apply for work permit visas and must hold a job / be self-employed that pays £35k and should also pay £500 Health surcharge every year. Once they have been here for 10 years and have been paying taxes for this entire duration, they can apply for citizenship like students used to be able to. Anyone without a job that pays that much will be given a month to leave the country before being deported.
Anyone who commits a crime and recieves a lengthy sentence will be deported.
No European will be entitled to state benefits. If they are now living in a council house, they will be given 2 months to find a rented accommodation and move out.
Any European caught squatting or begging or busking will be automatically deported.
All employers MUST fill vacancies locally, except sectors with skills shortage that cannot be sourced locally.

Manufacturing to start again in the country. Why is every product from ketchup to soup Made in the EU. Are we so incompetent that we can't produce them locally??
Abolishment of zero hour contracts.

[Saracen]

...

Abolishment of zero hour contracts.

While some of the above might be a bit extreme, there are people on zero-hour contracts because they want to be. That would include me. I've been on one for years, and will be very angry if forced off it.

I've no objection to people not being forced to be on one, but the versatility of accepting or not accepting jobs/days justifies, for me, the employer's option to offer or not offer work. It lets me accept more when otherwise in quiet times, or less to none when busy.

Zero hour contracts are perfect for people who are not reliant on that job to live, pay rent, etc. That, clearly, is not everybody. But I know of about 50 staff at just one local company, many of whom are retired and looking for variable hours, or who are self-employed doing something else, that work because it's zero-hour contract.

And I also know that that company took the contract to do the work these contracts cover only because it could be done via zero-hour contracts. There is not the volume or regularity of work to justify full-time staff, because the company he contracts for call in jobs as and when it suits them. rarely with more than a couple or three weeks notice and sometimes only days or even a few hours warning, and with very varying regularity depending on time of year. For instance, as it's large-scale replacing or updating of computers in a retail environment, nothing at all gets down from about week two in December until after the Jan sales. in a retail environment But for zero hour contracts, he would not have taken the contract and those jobs would not exist.

They certainly aren't ideal for everybody, but they are perfect for others, and not just employers

[kalniel]

Any European caught [..] busking will be automatically deported.

Do you have something against music?! We would be far poorer if it weren't for European music through the ages.

[Smudger]

I want
They ALL need to apply for work permit visas and must hold a job / be self-employed that pays £35k .

And away go all of the nurses and NHS ancillary staff from Europe who prop up the system.

[scaryjim]

Any European caught [..] busking will be automatically deported.

Do you have something against music?! We would be far poorer if it weren't for European music through the ages.

Not to mention the question of where you export british people who busk - after all, even if we're not part of the EU we're still European by any reasonable definition...

[peterb]

Well, European by virtue of being geologically part of the Europa continental shelf.

No European will be entitled to state benefits. If they are now living in a council house, they will be given 2 months to find a rented accommodation and move out.
Any European caught squatting or begging or busking will be automatically deported.

So you are content for Australians, Americans, those from the near, middle and Far East to do all those things. Just not 'Europeans'? (And by scaryjim's reasonable consideration, that applies to English, Sots, Welsh and Irish?

[BobF64]

All employers MUST fill vacancies locally, except sectors with skills shortage that cannot be sourced locally.

Add in to that "any unfilled local vacancies can be filled from the pool of local job seekers that haven't worked in the last year" and you're on to great idea!

Should work well towards the Governments plan to reduce unemployment and benefit payouts.

[kalniel]

Add in to that "any unfilled local vacancies can be filled from the pool of local job seekers that haven't worked in the last year" and you're on to great idea!

Should work well towards the Governments plan to reduce unemployment and benefit payouts.

Depends if there are that many unskilled vacancies. The impression I get is there's a massive demand for skilled workers - nurses, bricklayers, plumbers and electricians. I guess in harvest term there will be some more vacancies if the job seekers are willing to work the kinds of hours pickers need.

[Splash]

Manufacturing to start again in the country. Why is every product from ketchup to soup Made in the EU. Are we so incompetent that we can't produce them locally??

You'd be happy for the prices to go up then? One of the main drives to move manufacturing out of the UK is that things cost more to make here, and everyone wants cheaper stuff.

I'm wondering what it is specifically about *European* immigration that gets your goat so much, especially living in a country that has pretty much made it's place in the world due to historical immigration. You can trace your history back to the Iceni or some such?

[opel80uk]

And I also know that that company took the contract to do the work these contracts cover only because it could be done via zero-hour contracts. There is not the volume or regularity of work to justify full-time staff, because the company he contracts for call in jobs as and when it suits them. rarely with more than a couple or three weeks notice and sometimes only days or even a few hours warning, and with very varying regularity depending on time of year. For instance, as it's large-scale replacing or updating of computers in a retail environment, nothing at all gets down from about week two in December until after the Jan sales. in a retail environment But for zero hour contracts, he would not have taken the contract and those jobs would not exist.

I've heard this argument trotted out numerous times, but it's a fallacy. It is true that perhaps that company took on the contracts because it could be done via zero-hours contracts, but if zero-hour contracts were banned, are you suggesting that the work wouldn't get done, by someone else, somewhere else, using conventional contracts? Is the work such that only zero hour contracts permits the work, and if they were banned the jobs wouldn't exist to carry out the same work elsewhere, albeit not with that particular company? I say that implication is nonsense.

And whilst a zero hour contract may suit you perfectly, it is clear that for far too many people they can be, and in many cases are, exploitative and one sided. It's for that reason that New Zealand, hardly a bastian of social awareness, has banned them. And the UK should (although of course won't) follow suit.

[kalniel]

I'm wondering what it is specifically about *European* immigration that gets your goat so much, especially living in a country that has pretty much made it's place in the world due to historical immigration. You can trace your history back to the Iceni or some such?

That's different. Invasion is fine, non-violent immigration seems to be the problem.

[Splash]

That's different. Invasion is fine, non-violent immigration seems to be the problem.

Ah, my bad.

[Smudger]

Reminds me of a phrase I heard recently:

"The only true Englishman is actually Welsh."

Something to do with the Angles and Saxons invading and forcing all of the original Britons into Wales and Cornwall.

[scaryjim]

Reminds me of a phrase I heard recently:

"The only true Englishman is actually Welsh."

Something to do with the Angles and Saxons invading and forcing all of the original Britons into Wales and Cornwall.

It was from "Blood of the Vikings" - or at least it was demonstrated on that program, even if the saying's been around in other contexts.

They did genetic testing on local families across the UK, as well as in the Scandinavian countries, to identify regional markers. They found two Scandinavian markers, one that identified people of Norwegian decent, and one that idenitified people of Danish descent. The Danish one was indistinguishable from the Angles and Saxons, though. The Norwegian marker has isolated pockets around the Scottish and Irish coast. The Danish/Anglo-Saxon marker is prevalent throughout the entire country, except Wales, where the genetic profile is very different from any of our main historic European immigrants. Which means the Welsh are probably genetically closest to the original Britons. The rest of us are, at least to some extent, Germanic and/or Norse...

[kalniel]

The rest of us are, at least to some extent, Germanic and/or Norse...

Isn't Norse the same thing as the Norwegian descent Vikings?

And I'll see your Wales and raise you an Isle of Man

edit: Ah got you, you're saying the Celts are distinct from the Vikings, misread earlier.

Proudly not very anglo-saxon here