The member states unanimously agreeing thing is (afaik) to do with an extension to the 2 year deadline after triggering article 50, from what I've read being able to cancel article 50 before completion could be possible, it's why May 2017 seems the latest sensible time Article 50 should be triggered, later than that you run the risk of another government getting elected in 2020 and cancelling article 50.
Sounds to me that it is down to interpretation, and we may well be setting the precedent.
It is a precedent, no one else has shown signs of leaving.... Yet.Originally Posted by TooNice
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Subject to A.50 bring triggered. Not saying it won't, but the precedent won't be set until that.
In the last 3 weeks in the UK I went and caught up with many friends across the country and what I found it conveniently fascinating is that while I do not pick my friends based on their political orientations, and there is diversity between our occupations, we all still think that it is a major stink up, but are just holding our breath to see what is going to happen next. The only person for whom the dust has settled, seem to believe that we'll end up with a deal that is more of the same.
What will it take for you guys to admit that this current state of uncontrolled immigration from East Europe , where millions of people have already come over and more are coming day by day , is not good for us ?
Some proof?
Certain groups seem to want us to believe things were much better 'in the olden days'. They weren't. If you were poor or sick, it was terrible.
The figures seem to point to it being good for us, so as the above, some evidence that it's not would be helpful if you were wanting such an admission.
I'd go a bit further back and just say 'a reason'.
And I'll add: I judge someone by their character, not by where they come from by accident of birth.
We also judge them by what they've been through, potentially partly at our nations' hands, and what they can contribute to our society.
Not whether they have smartphones or not, nor only if they're children lying face down in the sand.
The current total immigration from the Eastern EU totals around 1.5million - so "millions" is a bit of an exaggeration. The annual immigration rate from Eastern Europe has been steady at roughly 125,000 a year for the last 10 years; the trend may even be flattening out over the last few years (figures from https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/sta...-country-birth). The growth rate amongst the Eastern EU immigrant population is roughly the same as for non-EU immigrants.
There are as many Western EU immigrants in the UK as Eastern, and over 3x as many non-EU immigrants. So it feels like this might be a personal grudge against Eastern Europeans, rather than a genuine concern over immigration...?
The thing that annoys me most about this debate in general (media / social media) is the binary narrative that is being peddled. This should be a far more nuanced debate on not "can we" but "should we" adhere to the EU position on free movement. Based on what I have read both scientifically and philosophically it is clear that;
1. Migration can have a positive effect both economically and socially, but equally the effects can be negative
2. There is a balance to be struck between too little and too much
Personally I am of the considered opinion that the EU model creates more problems than it solves and consequently a better solution is required. However, I accept that others may see the situation differently. The problem for those that wish to have a constructive debate on the matter is that a significant number of people are wedded to ideology rather than taking a pragmatic approach. That what we are arguing about are merely intersubjective constructs of our collective imagination is completely lost on them.
In any case if I were to pick one piece of evidence it would be the research that demonstrates that tolerance increases as the level of homogeneity within a social group rises. The interesting bit being that different social groups attach varying criteria for homogeneity. So clearly trying to force the issue is going to make some people less tolerant, as is painfully obvious at present both here and in Europe.
Last edited by SeriousSam; 10-10-2016 at 12:50 PM. Reason: pressed post instead of preview
If Wisdom is the coordination of "knowledge and experience" and its deliberate use to improve well being then how come "Ignorance is bliss"
Actual facts. Evidence to actually back up the claims as per usual. (No not the figures plucked out of the air from the right wing media outlet of your choice)
A lobotomy
So, no one has issues with Uncontrolled immigration from Europe?
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