Now that the dust is begining to settle... what do you want from UK / EU treaty

[SeriousSam]

So the EU have chosen Michel Barnier to lead their negotiations, whose politics further reinforce the notion that access to the free market will require accepting freedom of movement. This may at first seem like a bad thing, but personally I'm of a view that it will make things easier for us in some ways. Essentially it eliminates a whole facet of the debate as although access would be nice it isn't imperative, and certainly not worth the cost. So rather than getting bogged down in that debate it will be straight into discussions on tariffs etc. and what level of mutually beneficial co-operation. Obviously this assumes that our negotiators don't go in with an "access at all costs" mentality, but with everything that has been said by May et.al. so far it doesn't appear to be the case. Plus it would be political suicide for the Conservatives to sign up to freedom of movement given the level of opposition and repeated assertions that they "heard the message". Now whether or not this would send the European various factions into serious conflict remains to be seen, but I would expect some degree of shenanigans.

Bearing this in mind it would be safe to say my basic position is out of the single market, leaving us free to set our own tariffs with other nations. However, once you get beyond that about the only thing I know for certain is that I want the UK to honour and further it's commitments to "Big Science" e.g. CERN. How that then plays out in terms of scientists / engineers moving between either UK and EU or vice versa is obviously a discussion point. Certainly it would be nice if both sides could agree that it is important and find a sensible solution.

Anyway I'm curious as to what other people want to see from the negotiations. However, I'd like to set one basic ground rule in that we try to avoid getting bogged down in discussions about likelihood. "All In" or "All Out" may appear to be more likely than "In / Out" when it comes to the single market and freedom of movement, but until this process starts we really have no idea beyond posturing by politicians.

[Zak33]

I'd like to see a lot of the EU rulings replicated so we can all play the same games as soon as possible

everything from what chemicals can be sprayed on imported fruit from China to Safety legislation on cars and bikes, to beach cleanliness (yes, without the EU forcing us we'd still have small brown bars of "soap" floating where we now have beautiful seaside beaches)

if we try too hard to be different we'll either be impossible to deal with or a dumping ground for crap products

[Ferral]

Personally I would like us to remain in the single market but also have open travel borders between the EU and UK, would be a pain having to get visas for say travelling to France for a weekend

[wazzickle]

Some sort of trade agreement, with free movement - like a union, or something.

[kompukare]

Some sort of trade agreement, with free movement - like a union, or something.

Is this similar to going for random walk, taking all right turns, and unexpectedly ending up where you started from?

[Saracen]

What do we want? Dunno.

What do I want?

1) An end to freedom of movement. That does not necessarily mean visas to visit France. After all, I visit the US on a visa-waiver program and we certainly don't have freedom of movement with the US.

It also doesn't mean no immigration to/from the EU. It just means we control who emigrates to the UK, and the EU control how many of us emigrate there.

2) Get sovereignty back, and have laws made here, by people we elect. And can boot out. An end to EU courts telling our Parliament laws can't be made because EU law prohibits it.

3) Mutually beneficial trade. There's no reason there should be tariffs, etc, but it takes two. If the EU want to be awkward, which I don't expect them to be, well so be it. But if, as serms highly likely, full access to the single market requires freedom of movement, then no single market accdss it is. Which means trade under other terms.

4) Friendly, cooperation and working together in areas of mutual benefit, but as an independent country.

5) In other words, everything is negotiable to the mutual benefit of both, PROVIDED the treaties that embed us are revoked, repealed and otherwise shredded, and we deal as friendly neighbours, not political bedfellows. Brexit really does mean Brexit.

6) No paying into EU budget rither. We're an independent nation, not a junior member of their club.


Above all, and fundamental, is .... BREXIT MEANS BREXIT.

[TooNice]

As far as I am concerned, the dust hasn't been settled given that all we have is a target that is locked (referendum), but the bomb has yet to be dropped (Article 50). In the aftermath of A.50 being triggered, we can talk about "dust settling".

What I want, it hasn't changed. Given that I want the option of not just visiting a country visa-free to spend some tourist, but work/live there for a period of time to properly experience local culture, with some of the work I am interested in seasonal, freedom of movement is clearly something I desire.

Failing that, I suppose some favourable treatment of Scotland if they do opt to join the EU instead of staying in the Union.

[kalniel]

I would like full freedom of movement for people.

Preventing it is one of the most fundamental forms of protectionism, which I view as more of a sticking plaster over another problem rather than a solution in itself. Just as different environments are suited to different products, so different jobs are suited to different skills.

It's the negative consequences of that and their fundamental causes which need to be addressed. If there aren't jobs near you then what are the actual causes? Immigration may be one, in which case why are foreign workers seen as better for the business? Are they better skilled? Let's work on making ourselves more competitive. Are they willing to work for less? Let's work on a real living wage and addressing the causes of inflated costs of living in the UK like lack of housing.

Alongside that I'd like greater control over ejecting/refusing people if we need to for other reasons - particularly criminal offences - just as different people have different skills they also have different attitudes. I think that if you do come to the UK you must know and agree to abide by the laws of the land.

I'd like trade/production rules not to reflect protectionism either - we need to grow/harvest/make things where it makes the most sense in the world, not where it's most politically convenient. We need to be way more efficient and sustainable going forwards and stop falling foul of the prisoner's dilemma.

[Zak33]

tell you what else I'd like to see

Genuinely spend more money on the NHS and the Emergency forces, (from Police to coast guard) from the money not going to the EU.

[kalniel]

tell you what else I'd like to see

Genuinely spend more money on the NHS and the Emergency forces, (from Police to coast guard) from the money not going to the EU.

We can't afford to

[Bagnaj97]

What do we want? Dunno.

What do I want?

2) Get sovereignty back, and have laws made here, by people we elect. And can boot out. An end to EU courts telling our Parliament laws can't be made because EU law prohibits it.

4) Friendly, cooperation and working together in areas of mutual benefit, but as an independent country.

6) No paying into EU budget rither. We're an independent nation, not a junior member of their club.

2) Like our currently elected prime minister?

I'm not sure you can have 4) without 6). You just don't get something for nothing! If we're going to participate in ESA, CERN etc we'll have put up some cash.

[The Hand]

Remember ESA and the EU are two separate entities, so Brexit shouldn't change the UK's relationship there.

[shaithis]

I'd like to see controls on the amount of non-UK residents allowed to do unskilled labour in the UK.

[Zak33]

We can't afford to

but the nice man SAID .....

I think the NHS needs a right old upturn.... drop the top cost operations and drugs and machines that help 0.1% of the population live a bit longer.. and spend the vast sums on more nurses so they can work sensible hours, and not be utterly knackered 24/7

ditto police

[HalloweenJack]

Personally I would like us to remain in the single market but also have open travel borders between the EU and UK, would be a pain having to get visas for say travelling to France for a weekend

it never used to be when I got the ferry from Newhaven to Dieppe , pre travel area?

[HalloweenJack]

I would like full freedom of movement for people.

Preventing it is one of the most fundamental forms of protectionism, which I view as more of a sticking plaster over another problem rather than a solution in itself. Just as different environments are suited to different products, so different jobs are suited to different skills.

It's the negative consequences of that and their fundamental causes which need to be addressed. If there aren't jobs near you then what are the actual causes? Immigration may be one, in which case why are foreign workers seen as better for the business? Are they better skilled? Let's work on making ourselves more competitive. Are they willing to work for less? Let's work on a real living wage and addressing the causes of inflated costs of living in the UK like lack of housing.

Alongside that I'd like greater control over ejecting/refusing people if we need to for other reasons - particularly criminal offences - just as different people have different skills they also have different attitudes. I think that if you do come to the UK you must know and agree to abide by the laws of the land.

I'd like trade/production rules not to reflect protectionism either - we need to grow/harvest/make things where it makes the most sense in the world, not where it's most politically convenient. We need to be way more efficient and sustainable going forwards and stop falling foul of the prisoner's dilemma.

I would like a quota system for immigrants ala Australia.