Urgent problem with HMRC

[neonplanet40]

Hi folks,

This pretty much came out of nowhere. So bare with me:

I'm recently back from my honeymoon and had 2 letters from HMRC waiting for me. It turns out that they are both late penalty fee notices.

• Late filing penalties for the year ended 5th April 2013 - Total £1200
• Late filing penalties for the year ended 5th April 2014 - Total £1200

Now I hope you can imagine my shock/horror. I have never been self employed. I am a teacher and have been since 2012. I have never been self employed or received any income outside of my teachers pay. My pay is through the payee system. Completely outside my control like most workers.

So, as i was entirely disbelieving of the whole thing I rang up HMRC. I was put through only to be told that they have been trying to contact me for 3 years and have sent out numerous letters. To be honest the woman was extremely unhelpful. Now, I have moved house twice in the last 3 years. Not really our fault, we rent and landlords wanted back into the properties. HMRC wouldn't tell me the address these letters were sent too, so I don't know where the letters went. As far as I know there is no way for me to give HMRC my contact details - I mean, why would I need to?

However, I have NEVER received anything from HMRC (until these penalty notices). If I did, I would have acted on it. They said that I had underpaid my tax by £57 in the year 2012-2013. How? I don't know as a payee I don't control my tax or payments. It is all automatic. They had tried to contact me to arrange repayment and because I never replied (how could I? I didn't know!) I was issued with penalties.

They stated I had to appeal the penalties. I offered to pay the money they said I underpaid (which I would have done instantly had I known) but they said no. I must appeal the £2400 penalty on a £57 underpayment.

SO, I fill in the appeal forms (the same day I got the letters!) and send them off recorded delivery on the 13/7/16.

I only got a reply today which stated they "could not consider my appeal because we have not received your tax return" for both years. So they returned my appeals with the letter. Telling me I must file tax returns.

Can someone explain to me what is going on here? I feel like I am being screwed over royally!

Thanks for your help, patience/advice!

Mark

[Bluecube]

The Citizens Advice Bureau should be able to help you out here. Sounds like the usual cluster**** at HMRC... Prepare for the long haul but having said that I've got my fingers crossed you'll get this sorted out soon.

Just a thought, it'll be worth having a word with your HR and/or payroll department as well. I doubt you'll have been the first to be faced with such a situation.

[peterb]

Did you file a tax return for the years in question?

Your employer should have given you a P60 at the end of each tax year. That will show the registered address that HMRC have. Are those addresses correct? If not, did you tell your employer about your change of address?

This might help

http://taxaid.org.uk/guides/taxpayer...e-a-tax-return

Otherwise you may need to login to create a tax return for the missing years. You will need to register for a government gateway account first.

http://www.gateway.gov.uk

You can then log into the self assessment area of HMRC

https://www.gov.uk/topic/personal-tax/self-assessment

[deejayburnout]

I was self employed for a few years and after i went back to PAYE. they still insisted that i fill in my self assessment tax return for 3 years before they stopped it. There was no need for it and after i called on year 1, the told me it wouldn't happen again and low and behold it happens again. Called again year 2 and they said the same thing so they do muck up. I would get on the phone and speak to a human being and ask for some advice.

Have you also considered that they may have the wrong person?

Don' worry about it, if you are in the right, then it should all come good in the end.

[neonplanet40]

Did you file a tax return for the years in question?

Your employer should have given you a P60 at the end of each tax year. That will show the registered address that HMRC have. Are those addresses correct? If not, did you tell your employer about your change of address?

No I did not file a tax return. I have never been self employed. I have never met any of the criteria that would require me to file a tax return.

As for my address, I notified my school when I moved. However, it was only this year (when I enquired about not receiving my last 2 P60's) that they informed me they didn't inform the council that we work in that they should update my address. In my last school they did update them centrally. So I never knew until I queried. I can now access my P60's electronically but when I login they all only show my new address which I have been at since February this year. So if HMRC have been contacting the address my P60's have been sent to then it may be an address I moved out of almost 3 years ago.

[Jonj1611]

I would get professional advice on this matter. Certainly start with the CAB, they will generally put you in touch with a CAB solicitor.

[peterb]

Even if you are PAYE you may still be required to file a tax return - they aren't just a requirement of the self employed.

You might have investment income or other income not taxed at source, or you might have income that aggregated might push you into a higher tax bracket.

You personally may not, but HMRC may not know that. They can require you to fill in a tax return in any tax year, and may have done so - sending it to your old address.

However, back to you the fact that your employer didn't inform you of your change of address sounds like good grounds for appeal.

So you could register and complete tax returns for the missing years, or write to HMRC asking for a paper form and cite your reasons for not completing one earlier.

(Usual disclaimer, I am not a lawyer or a tax accountant)

[scaryjim]

Also, it used to be the case, and AFAIK still is, that your total fines could not exceed the amount of tax you owed. I've recently had a stupid amount of late filing fines (my forms were eaten by royal mail, unsurprisingly) overturned on appeal as I would not have owed any tax. It's a bit of a faff, but sending in a letter saying you're appealing because your employer failed to pass on your correct address to HMRC so you were unaware of the need to fill in the form, that your tax has been paid via PAYE throughout and you have had no other income, and that the fines are therefore more than the tax you would be due to pay.

As an aside, if you start work or change salary significantly during a tax year it's quite possible that your employer didn't calculate your PAYE correctly, however this should show up on your P60. However it happened, I'd suggest that you give HMRC another ring - the level of help you get can vary depending on who you talk to, but I've generally found them pretty helpful when I've spoken to them.

[Unique]

call HMRC and speak to them on the phone about it. btw it's the individuals responsibility to update HMRC when changing address, they don't take details from the employer. so if you moved home and didn't tell HMRC, HMRC wouldn't know you moved and wouldn't update records, even if you told your employer and a different address appears on payslips and your P60

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-t...d-a-tax-return

you don't need to be self employer to have to fill in a self assessment. the link above shows who needs to fill one in.

https://www.gov.uk/topic/personal-tax/self-assessment

that link should provide more information. i suggest you read up over the weekend and give HMRC a call on monday

[neonplanet40]

A Tax return now applies for me because:

"you had a P800 from HMRC saying you didn’t pay enough tax last year - and you didn’t pay what you owe through your tax code or with a voluntary payment"

The problem is, I only found out 4 weeks ago that I hadn't paid enough tax (for the year 2012-2013). I was unable to pay what I owed because I received no letters from them, as such, did not know I had to pay anything.

The whole thing is a mess. And a £2400 fine for £57 is scandalous.

I am sure Amazon and other companies are chased like this for the millions they owe.

[deejayburnout]

I am sure Amazon and other companies are chased like this for the millions they owe.

If only.

[pp05]

You are being shafted. There has been an error somewhere because 57 quid to turn into 1200 in two years, are they a credit card company now?

If you're on PAYE with no other income then they're clearly in the wrong. The problem for you is because of the time that's lapsed you can't appealv diretly to them. Are they taking you to court? I would empty my account of money leaving a 1k for bills in the meantime until the matter is resolved.

Talk to someone who can deal with them for you. Keep your savings below 3k as well.

[peterb]

I would empty my account of money leaving a 1k for bills in the meantime until the matter is resolved.

Talk to someone who can deal with them for you. Keep your savings below 3k as well.

The first is pointless. HMRC have first call on any assets, and hiding money will be detected.

The second point is valid. You do need to talk to them, and if the first person you talk to is unhelpful, ring back to talk to someone else.

To avoid problems like this, registering for online access to your tax account is by far the simplest way of filing tax returns if required, and receiving notifications from HMRC.

[Gerrard]

Thanks for highlighting this problem. I had assumed that since my current address was on my payslips and my P60 (as I had told my employer), that HMRC had my current address. However, I checked online (took about 10 minutes to register and set up) and found they had my previous one that I had moved out of 2 years ago. Hopefully I haven't missed anything like this!

[flearider]

did you keep any payslips ? go to your local hmrc ask to speak with someone or call for an appointment .. take in your p60's or payslips ..
the fault is not yours but whatever company you worked for ..
i have 7 yrs worth of payslips ..just incase ..

[BobF64]

I am sure Amazon and other companies are chased like this for the millions they owe.

If only.

Do Amazon owe millions? Don't confuse "owe" with "wish they would pay".

I think Vodafone did, and the HMRC screwed the taxpayer over on the "settlement".

My pay is through the payee system. Completely outside my control like most workers.

Whilst true, it doesnt mean you cant end up owing money. Does your employer provide you with anything? A phone, laptop, driving miles?

I managed to underpay tax whilst on PAYE because my employer didnt tell the tax office I was receiving benefits in kind in the right tax year.

It might be a mistake, in that HMRC believe you have been given something as a benefit, but its not.

Also, you said you moved, it is your responsibility to tell HMRC your new address, not your employers, so anything they sent you may have been sent to the wrong address.