AGP Graphics Card Upgrade

[Palhil]

Sorry. Yes it's another graphics card upgrade question. I've read some of the other threads on this subject but I'm so worried about over spending or breaking my computer that I thought I'd better ask some knowledgeable people before I make a mistake.

Okay, after buying Oblivion I've decided to look at upgrading my graphics card. My system is about 3 years old now. It still works okay but the graphics are starting to creak a bit on new games. Oblivion just highlighted the fact. I know that the trend now is to upgrade the motherboard to PCI-E, but I think if I go down that route I might as well avoid the hassle and get a new computer. That's not something I want to do at the moment.

So I'm looking for a good AGP graphics card that will work well with my computers spec. Which is...

P4 2.54GHz
1 GB Ram
ATI Radeon 9700pro
Asus P4B533-V Motherboard
AGP 2x - 4x (1.5v)
250W PSU

I've seen a good review for the Gainward Nvidia 6800gs Golden Sample 512mb. So that's what I am considering. Scan.co.uk have it for just shy of £170 inc delivery although I'd really like to spend less money than that.

Am I just being stupid?

Is that card just too much for my system?

I've already recognised that the PSU in my computer is going to have to be replaced. But again I'm worried. I heard that you have to make sure you get the right type for your motherboard. I've had a quick look at PSUs and a lot of them seem to be quite expensive. I found this one on eBay which is cheap but is it any good?

I really don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't kept track of the computer components industry very much lately so I'm rather lost.

If the Gainward 6800gs isn't right then what would be?

If my system can't handle anything significantly faster than my current Radeon 9700pro then there's no real point in doing anything. I'd just have to live with low res Oblivion.

So, can you (the clever people) help me (an idiot)?

Thank you for reading and not sighing and rolling your eyes too much.

[[DW]Cougho]

Your right to be looking at a 6800gs id say. I was gonna jump up and down saying "512mb is not worth it", but looking at the price difference over the 256mb version.... £8 its worth it. The other option is an X800gt on scan for £143, but id definately suggest going for the 6800 over it, especially if oblivion is one of the games your playing.

Now the PSU, this is one area that you do not want to be skimping, however that also doesnt mean its necessary to be spending £60 or £70. I had a look on scan and although the lower rated psu's like the 420w enermax coolergiant @ £38 would be great (basically the same psu as is powering my system) id go for the bargainous http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=156689 as its only a few extra pounds but provides a fair bit more ooomph and newer connectors so it would be great to transfer to a newer rig if/when you come to upgrade.

[charger]

Well if you are going to purchase the 6800gs you will most probably need a new power supply. While that power supply seems good at 400W (the ebay link one) i would always prefer a well known brand of PSU's just incase you get some dodgy aftermarket one, companies like antec, tagan, seasonic,hiper, enermax etc are good well known brands.
To be perfectly honest you will get a performance increase in games with the 6800gs but it wont be a major increase as your cpu will be bottlenecking the card hence, why a full system upgrade would see a much more significant difference, which is obviously not what you want to do right now.
If you do upgrade the graphics card then a new psu will definately be in order as the latest graphics cards are quite power hungry and frankly your 250w psu will not put up a good fight.
If you can put up with oblivion on low resolution, then i would for now until you do decide to upgrade to a pci-express system, as being honest the performance difference would not be huge and that money could go towards your new upgrade in the future. the decision is yours at the end of the day.

[Palhil]

Thanks for the replies, they are much appreciated.

It's good to know that I wasn't being completly crazy thinking about the 6800gs but if my CPU is going to strangle it then there might not be much point. Shame. At the moment I don't think it's worth me upgrading the motherboard just so I can play a couple of games.

So it looks like I'll probably have to make do until I can stand it no longer. I'm a bit sad about that but I'll just have to keep my chin up.

[awm]

You also seem to be limited to an AGP 4x bus which may limit a faster card on a new game, not sure, but its something to think about. Also you might want to think if a full upgrade is warented instead of trying to add a little here and there. 170 is a solid chink of money and I personally would think twice before investing it in old technology.

[Sticky Mick]

True but the 6800GS can be BIOS flashed to unlock it to a 6900Ultra, by using RivaTuner. It'll work a treat alond side a new 939 AMD3500, (If you wanna switch, not used an Intel since my PIII/750) not sure about your RAM tho "1 GB RAM" could mean anything.

AGP isn't dead yet, there's plenty of AGP stuff around at the mo and I've actually seen a huge performance boost on an AMD socketA system after installing a 6600GT. You could still build an Oblivion runner out of the sytem I've got.

I think Nvidia and ATI learned a lot from scrapping AGP overnight, that's why you can now buy AGP 7800's.

And yes Definitely a new PSU.

[Palhil]

Originally Posted by Sticky Mick

not sure about your RAM tho "1 GB RAM" could mean anything.

Do you mean what type? I think it has 2x 256mb 184-pin DIMMs and 1x 512mb 184-pin DIMM.

But it's rather academic now because it looks like it's going to be too much time and effort to buy and install a PSU, motherboard and graphics card just for a game.

Thanks for the replies though.

[jamena]

I'd check out the AGP 4x compatability of the 6800 cards before buying...and whether that impacts on the performance. It's a bit wasteful buying a ferrari if you can only use the first 3 gears... imho

I'm tempted to suggest that you stick with it for the moment until AM2 is realeased (might have more graphics card updates soon too? ) and then re-spec a new system out?

[schmunk]

Originally Posted by jamena

I'd check out the AGP 4x compatability of the 6800 cards before buying...and whether that impacts on the performance.

Yes it'll be fully compatible.

No, it will not affect performance, not even a tiny weeny little bit.

[sawyen]

You'll have it known that the 8x AGP still have so much excess bandwidth that even a 4x accelerated port is ample for anything from 6800 and below.. Even at its peak pump rate, None of todays AGP will actually saturate the 8x bandwidth.. no even close TBH..

So I doubt you'll see much hit when going down to 4x on a humble 6800GS..

Ohh, also its a 6800Ultra.. , and thats if you're lucky enough to get an early NV40 core that unlocks (though I have been reading from ppl that did actually unlock)

[Palhil]

So apart from my weedy PSU is it the P4 2.54GHz that is making an upgrade redundant? As was said earlier would the elderly Pentium restrain the graphics card too much?

Just so I'm clear. Thanks.

[sawyen]

I'm sure you'll be able to push more life into that P4 of yours.. considering its a once mighty Northwood, get that thing up to like 3.2Ghz then you'll be less limited.. Or look for a cheapo 2nd hand Northwood that is capable of doing 3.2-3.4Ghz..

But thats if ur certain you want to stay with AGP (which is not all that bad considering there's the 7800GS+ 512MB around), just as long as u have a high speced CPU and ample amount of mem to feed it..

AGP upgrade list would be
£320 for a 7800GS+ Bliss 512MB
£70 for a 2nd hand Northwood that does 3.4Ghz (or clock yours to 3.4Ghz)
£60 for another pair of 512MB sticks to make it 2GB..

Total = £450 (or £380), you'll get a almost limited system on a super graphic card..

PCI-E upgrade list
£200 for a weaker 7900GT 256MB
£60 decent 939 board from Asus or Abit
£110 Opteron 146
£110 for a pair of 1Gb sticks non XMS stuff..

Total = £480

Sell your old bits on HEXUS, return = £110+

Total - £370ish.. and overclock that 146 to 2.8Ghz to get a system that will totally smack your old P4.. regardless whether its BLISS or not..

If your AGP system was say an MSI Neo 2 Platinum running an FX-53 or Athlon 64 3200+ bits then things would be different..

[cptwhite_uk]

actually ...The 7800GS+ Bliss512Mb....is £255 at ebuyer...http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/107323/rb/19064114830

[sawyen]

Thats a 7800GS Gliss.. not the 7800GS+ Bliss..

Difference.. 7800GT core 20pp versus a full sized 7900GT core 24pp..

Ohh.. and the 1.2ns mem..

[Palhil]

Wow. Thanks for all the great advice. This certainly gives me a lot to think about. I'd not even thought about replacing the CPU.

[andrewuk]

I just bought an X850Pro agp from Tekheads and successfully unlocked it to 16 pipes and it's working very nicely in my AGP 4x system. Certainly an enormous speed boost from my 9600 card. If you can find one, or a 6800GT then go for it.