What a load of bull.. (belgium GP)

[staffsMike]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7602830.stm

I can't even imagine how they can justify that

[this_is_gav]

Because Hamilton cheated?

25 second penalty is a little harsh in my opinion, but he gained an advantage by cutting the course. It would be hard to justify not giving some penalty (15 seconds or 5 place grid drop for Monza were more what I was expecting though).

Epic race though. First 10 laps were awesome. Final 10 laps were awesome. Some nice tactical battling in between.

GP2 race had some farcical defending going on. I hope that lot are mauled by Charlie in the drivers briefing at Monza. I was cringing at some of the moves.

[TAKTAK]

but he gave the place back... so he didn't gain anything...

(from what i can gather from the report) i havn't watched the race yet, but i'm off to in a bit...

[staffsMike]

Cheated how exactly?

Where else could he have gone in that position, he was ahead for goodness sake. He did the honourable thing and gave the place back to kimi which completly negated the "more momentum" argument since Kimi wouldn't have got passed if that was the case..

It's a joke and had no outcome on the race results anyway.

[AledJ]

Hamilton gave the place back to Kimi and let him pass, as he should have done. So I don't see where the advantage came from???

If you cast your mind back to the race in Spain, how many incidents did Ferrari have in the pits??? Another thing that i just read said that in the gp2 race before the F1 race, a driver was penalized for an incident in the pits. But when Ferrari did it what happened??? Nothing!!!!

Hamilton won that race fairly!

[this_is_gav]

Originally Posted by TAKTAK

but he gave the place back... so he didn't gain anything...

(from what i can gather from the report) i havn't watched the race yet, but i'm off to in a bit...

You clearly haven't watched the race.

Raikkonen retook Hamilton into the chicane (Hamilton had got on his outside under braking), then Hamilton attempted to go around the outside. Space ran out, so he cut the chicane, resuming ahead of Kimi. He then blended out of the throttle just enough to allow Kimi to get ahead (there wasn't much more than a car length separating them, if that), then Hamilton just took the opportunity to out-brake him into turn 1.

Had Hamilton stuck to the confines of the race track in the chicane, he'd have to have backed off, and would have been more like 0.7-1.2 seconds behind Raikkonen. He therefore gained an advantage by cutting the course, and more so used it to aid an overtaking manoeuvre.

That is a pretty clear definition of cheating.

It was the same as Suzuka '05 when Alonso overtook Klien by cutting the chicane, then to try to give the position back, just backed out of the throttle, then immediately ducked back under Klien, got a slipstream and promptly overtook him again, all in one straight. Alonso gave the position back properly a lap or 2 later, but had he not, he'd have been given a penalty, like Hamilton today and at Magny-Cours. He gained an advantage through not staying within the confines of the race track.

You can ignore the "it didn't effect the outcome of the race" bit, as who knows what would have happened. Kimi might not have been around other cars, as he was when he crashed the following lap, so might not have gone off track.

[chriswood_7]

Thats a terrible decision, once again Ferarri prevail. Its becoming a joke. Football is a joke. Long live MotoGP!

[chuckskull]

Saw the move, Hamilton surrendered the place from the bus stop, raik went over the start finish line first, Hamilton re-passed him fair an square on the next corner. 25seconds is way over the top.

Yet nothing happened for the pit lane farces in spain.

[staffsMike]

What about Kimi in monaco.. Totally screwed the Race for Sutil.. Did they miss that?

[this_is_gav]

Originally Posted by chuckskull

Yet nothing happened for the pit lane farces in spain.

Can't remember anyone being penalised for such a pit-lane incident as Raikkonen's.

Massa's didn't fall into the same category as the other pit-lane infringements, as it wasn't an unsafe exit to the pits. There were no other people in the pit-lane at that point. I don't think he should have been punished at all, even the fine and reprimand he was given. His reaction afterwards was deplorable though ("I am the race leader, he should have let me through").

Originally Posted by staffsMike

What about Kimi in monaco.. Totally screwed the Race for Sutil.. Did they miss that?

It's a completely different matter, but no. It didn't fall under the terms of 'avoidable collision' as Kimi simply lost control. Very hard on Force India, but that was a racing incident.

A better example would be France, where the stewards could have called Raikkonen in for having flailing body work.

[TiG]

Originally Posted by this_is_gav

You clearly haven't watched the race.

Raikkonen retook Hamilton into the chicane (Hamilton had got on his outside under braking), then Hamilton attempted to go around the outside. Space ran out, so he cut the chicane, resuming ahead of Kimi. He then blended out of the throttle just enough to allow Kimi to get ahead (there wasn't much more than a car length separating them, if that), then Hamilton just took the opportunity to out-brake him into turn 1.

Had Hamilton stuck to the confines of the race track in the chicane, he'd have to have backed off, and would have been more like 0.7-1.2 seconds behind Raikkonen. He therefore gained an advantage by cutting the course, and more so used it to aid an overtaking manoeuvre.

That is a pretty clear definition of cheating.

It was the same as Suzuka '05 when Alonso overtook Klien by cutting the chicane, then to try to give the position back, just backed out of the throttle, then immediately ducked back under Klien, got a slipstream and promptly overtook him again, all in one straight. Alonso gave the position back properly a lap or 2 later, but had he not, he'd have been given a penalty, like Hamilton today and at Magny-Cours. He gained an advantage through not staying within the confines of the race track.

You can ignore the "it didn't effect the outcome of the race" bit, as who knows what would have happened. Kimi might not have been around other cars, as he was when he crashed the following lap, so might not have gone off track.

He didn't gain 25 Seconds, the person he was racing against BINNED IT.

Its bull**** and i hope it goes to appeal. $10000 if you are a red car, -25seconds if you aren't.

Its cynical bull****.

TiG

[ACiD303]

Originally Posted by staffsMike

What about Kimi in monaco.. Totally screwed the Race for Sutil.. Did they miss that?

Sutil wouldve been penalised anyway had he collected that fourth place - the stewards ruled post race he had overtaken under a yellow (or similar to that effect) earlier in the race. Had Kimi not ran into the back of him, and the penalty imposed, people still would've said the decision was to aid Kimi's Ferrari up one position.

[Andy3536]

Hamilton was in the lead entering the chicane and still gave the place up afterwards.
WTF is going on over there, Ron Dennis even said Charlie Whiting the race director said he saw nothing wrong with the events.

They seem to be looking for any excuse to damage Mclaren and any excuse to let Farrari have it easy.

Farrari should have had a drive through penaly (last race or race before) where masa was side by side in the pitlane with another driver and they bottled what was a black and white decision.

Why is just when F1 is starting to be worth watching again they start doing things like this.

[this_is_gav]

Originally Posted by TiG

He didn't gain 25 Seconds, the person he was racing against BINNED IT.

Its bull**** and i hope it goes to appeal. $10000 if you are a red car, -25seconds if you aren't.

Its cynical bull****.

TiG

Wow. The definition of a Hamilton fanboy....

Drivers have never been penalised the amount of time they gained, so I don't know where you're coming from. He got penalised for, and I quote the official document, "cut the chicane and gained an advantage". The standard penalty in such an instance is a drive through penalty, but as it was applied at the end of the race, the set penalty (set in the sporting regulations for such instances) is 25 seconds.

It's not a case of "well, he gained half a second by cutting the chicane, so he should lose half a second". He cheated. He therefore got the penalty which has been in place for years. It's the same penalty as in Magny-Cours (only that was a drive-through).

Originally Posted by Andy3536

Hamilton was in the lead entering the chicane and still gave the place up afterwards.
WTF is going on over there, Ron Dennis even said Charlie Whiting the race director said he saw nothing wrong with the events.

Ron Dennis said that Charlie said it "it complied". That Charlie isn't a steward, and never has been, should render that a bit meaningless anyway.

Read about for the take on the Massa pit-lane 'infringement'.

[ACiD303]

Originally Posted by TiG

He didn't gain 25 Seconds, the person he was racing against BINNED IT.

Its bull**** and i hope it goes to appeal. $10000 if you are a red car, -25seconds if you aren't.

Its cynical bull****.

TiG

The penalty is meant to be worth more than any advantage....that's why it's a penalty, that's why you don't do it.

It's a harsh ruling, I admit, but that's what's been decided. I think Hamilton would've won the race anyway, at the rate he caught Kimi and with the rain, had he just backed off at the chicane.

[AledJ]

Again I ask what advantage did Hamilton get? He allowed Kimi to go passed him.