Bike Driving License/Laws....?

Gr44 · 06-11-2006, 09:35 PM

Howdy hey,

I've been toying with the idea of getting a bike for some time now.... I'm getting tempted again at the moment.. I had a few questions though....

I currently hold a full UK driving license, no bike license atall.

Firstly,

What would I need to legally ride a bike, my understanding is you need to pass a basic test to allow you to ride an 'L' plate bike - then another one after this to remove the plates and ride a bike upto a certain CC ?
Whats the limit, and what do you do after to ride bigger bikes?

Also, more importantly, how to you LEARN to ride a bike?

Now, forgive me for my stupidly - it may seem stupid to those of you who DO ride bikes. However, when I was learning to drive a car, you sit in a nice 21c cabin, with a person right next to you guiding you along the way.

On a bike, though... what, you jump on and the teacher points in a direction hoping to see you again shortly? It sounds stupid, I imagine it's much like riding a push bike with regard to balance and such - but balance is one of my biggest concerns on a bike, that and other road users! I feel somewhat safe with a ton of metal around me...

Finally, costs...... Now, I'm only 19 - and I wouldn't be seen dead riding around in a dodgy moped with L plates on the back. My main concern is getting a reasonbly fast bike that I can insure. I drive a 2litre astra, and I can tell you my insurance on that is utterly insane. Think £1000, think double.... then add 600. I can't afford that again on a bike, so could you give me a ball-park figure for a half decent bike... I would imagine ( though correct me if needs be ) that 400cc would be plently, if not overkill?

Thanks for reading ( and hopefully posting )

Sean

dave87 · 06-11-2006, 09:50 PM

With regards the license:

The best option for you is to do the A category license which will allow you to ride anything up to 33bhp for 2 years, then if you are 21 before that, you can do another test to go beyond that, or wait until the 2 years are up and then ride anything you like

Training - you use a radio in which you can hear the instructor/examiner, but they can't hear you. All of the time on the training will be on a 125, my CBT I rode one of the school bikes but then did my test on a Honda Varadero (which I had bought myself). Much of the basics are taught (

Bike insurance wise- for me on a varadero on L plates it was 700 - but I was 17 and only had a provisional license. Last year, with a years no claims and being a year older, it was 327 something. This is TPFT though - but little point in getting comprehensive insurance unless you intend to crash (I didn't so therefore went TPFT)

**Agent** · 06-11-2006, 09:58 PM

First you have to do a CBT before you can even go on the road.
As you are over 17, you will be able to ride up to a 125cc machine, although it must be restricted to 14.6 horsepower.

You can not take passengers, or go on motorways.
From here, you can do one of two tests, A1 and A (restricted)

A1 means you can ride up to a 125cc, again restricted to 14.6 horsepower....basically, you loose the L plates. Pointless

The A (restricted) is done on a 125cc bike, once passed you can ride on any bike, provided its limited to 33bhp.
After 2 years at 33bhp, you can ride any bike you want.

Once you are 21 - you can take a DAS (Direct Access)

You can take a test on a bike of at least 46.6bhp, and then ride anything you want.

If you do your A (restricted) test like above, and reach 21 before the 2 years is up, you can take an “Accelerated Access” course / test, which will quickly get you derestricted, and able to ride anything.

More to come.....

**Agent** · 06-11-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gr44

Also, more importantly, how to you LEARN to ride a bike?

Now, forgive me for my stupidly - it may seem stupid to those of you who DO ride bikes. However, when I was learning to drive a car, you sit in a nice 21c cabin, with a person right next to you guiding you along the way.

On a bike, though... what, you jump on and the teacher points in a direction hoping to see you again shortly? It sounds stupid, I imagine it's much like riding a push bike with regard to balance and such - but balance is one of my biggest concerns on a bike, that and other road users! I feel somewhat safe with a ton of metal around me...

I like the pointing comment

You do your CBT in which you'll learn to balance the bike when riding. This isn’t very hard and is surprisingly natural. You'll do your CBT on something small and light to help this.
While you can not really "fail" a CBT as such, if they don’t think you are comfortable on the bike, they wont "pass" you either. You will have more training (this is at no extra cost - you usually pay a flat fee for a CBT regardless) until they are happy.
Riding is easy provided you remember a few things.

1) DONT PANIC - if you panic, you WILL loose control of the bike. Take it easy, there is no rush. If you're not happy, just stop and take a rest. Know your limits.

2) RESPECT THE BIKE - The second you take the bike for granted, it will throw you off. When you have that much power sitting between your legs, you do not arse around.

3) REMEMBER YOUR LIFESAVERS - They are called that for a reason.

4) YOU ARE INVISIBLE - Road users will not see you. Don’t assume because you are riding well and are doing everything right that everyone else will. People will pull out on you, and you need to be prepared for it.

5) Take extra care in the wet - You will be effected by oil / diesel spills more. Take it easy. Avoid bus stops and painted areas.

6) Wear correct clothing – This will cost a few hundred, so it’s important to factor this in. Anyone who goes out wearing jeans and a t-shirt is a prat. If a police motorcyclist see’s you out in T-shirt and jeans, they *will* find a reason to pull you over, regardless of if you have your lid (helmet) on - which is the only legal thing you need to ride with.

As for the actual test – you have speakers + microphone in your helmet which allows you to communicate with the examiner.

Originally Posted by Gr44

Finally, costs...... Now, I'm only 19 - and I wouldn't be seen dead riding around in a dodgy moped with L plates on the back. My main concern is getting a reasonbly fast bike that I can insure. I drive a 2litre astra, and I can tell you my insurance on that is utterly insane. Think £1000, think double.... then add 600. I can't afford that again on a bike, so could you give me a ball-park figure for a half decent bike... I would imagine ( though correct me if needs be ) that 400cc would be plenty, if not overkill?

Well, if you have a 400cc you'll have to have is restricted - that can cost a bit on its own. “Under 21” and “learner” do not go together with “fast”. If you want a fast bike, wait till your 21.
If you want to learn how to ride a bike for the fun of it, a 125 still has a fair bit of power and can be very fun. It will also give you invaluable learning experience and help with your insurance when you pass.
Wanting a bike just purely for the speed is a bad idea. To be totally honest with you, if your “main concern” about getting a bike is it being “fast” like you said – please, don’t. I don’t mean that in a harsh way, but it’s totally the wrong way to think about it.
Unless you have somewhere to use the speed anyway, it becomes pretty pointless. If you’re after acceleration, most bikes will give you that.

Insurance wont be cheap either - until you pass your full test, you are still a learner, and will be insured as such. However, that’s for a bike, so its going to be quite a bit cheaper than a car anyway.

I’m 21 and have an ER-5 (500cc Kawasaki) and my insurance comes in at just over £550.

**Agent** · 06-11-2006, 10:50 PM

Oh and its "Bike Riding", not "Bike Driving"

Gr44 · 06-11-2006, 10:53 PM

Thanks for the replies, some very good knowledge there.

First off,

Reason for wanting a bike is NOT speed alone. However I don't really want to spend 2k on a 125cc bike and then buy another bike ( eg 400/500cc ). I'd rather buy a decent bike and trust myself to use it sensibally.

I've had a powerful car ( for my age ) for best part of a year, my old car which I had for a year wasn't exactley slow either, and bar the front bumping grounding on every other speed hump I've been okay touch wood. So I'd like to think I have a degree of sense plus bikes scare the **** out of mr which is my main reason for not having done a CBT yet. Respect. Respect the bike.... as said, cars give you a nice sense of feeling safe, albeit completely irrelevent because you clearly aren't - it's nice to have some weight around you.

Reasons for a bike are: Thrill, that is a thrill of riding a bike at a reasonable speed - I would imagine a bike at 50-60 feels one hell of alot faster than a car doing the same, or even a ton. Also, it's completely differant to a car, I've had a car for nearly 2 years.... done a fairly high mileage in them to, along with numerous hire cars for works etc.... and to be honest, they get boring... as I'm sure a bike would, but hell its cheaper and something new to get a bike rather than another car!!
I want that experiance at some point in my life, now I figure is easier to do it than in 10-20-30 years.
Also, i suppose it helps the enviroment, slightly... hah - who am i kidding.

Right, a more pressing issue than if I'm going to kill myself by riding like a nutter -

CBT, Do I have to buy a bike before I do this? is there no way I can have a go on some bikes first to see if I actually enjoy it ? Never no I might hate it - would be a waste of 2k on a bike then!!

I wouldn't want to shell out large amounts of money for something I hate a week later... anyway around this? Bike schools? never seen one but I guess they must exist? ( Can you tell I've done my research?? ) *goes to yell.com*

500cc ER-5 eh? do you offer free rides with clothing to boot?

**** EDIT ****

Pah, I was suitabally impressed with both the speed you answered and also the content with which you replied.

Then you blow it, don't you?

Yup..... *whistles*

Ok, so Bike 'Driving' was a SLIGHTLY stupid thread title, I'll give you that!! hah.

dave87 · 06-11-2006, 10:54 PM

Agent - you basically set out the laws of motorcycling

CBT you use the schools bikes, as you can with the training & test afterwards - no need to buy a 125 (unless like me there was a gap between CBT & training)

Michael · 06-11-2006, 10:54 PM

Hey mate.

Glad I inspired this a little

Okay, my riding started out of frustration at forking out £40 for a two hour lesson week on end for car lessons with some dozy bint who wouldn't get her act together.

I googled around for what 125cc bike I wanted... I'm young, male... that'd be a fast "sports" bike then. I settled on the Aprilia RS125 (A nippy two stroke bike that will upset an awful lot of cars, especially when it has a couple of L's strapped to it.)

Anyway, I found one at a dealer near me. Arranged to buy it and do my CBT through them.

The CBT consisted of being tought how to control a bike, use gears, balance, etc... It's all very easy once you've been on it for 30 minutes. The training lasted up until about 1PM, I got there at aroud 9AM. It's not all that long. Being a car driver will help, plenty of road sense already.

Anyway. I finished the training, put my certificate in my pocket, and that was it. I was free to leave the dealership on my new crotch rocket

Crapped myself. The acceleration was like nothing i'd felt before... thought my arms were going to be ripped from their sockets. - The feeling lasted about a week or two until I got used to it.

I'd like to think i'm a fairly decent rider now. Just ride defensively and you'll be fine. Always be checking the side streets and never assume a car has seen you, make sure you leave plenty of room to get yourself out of trouble if some tool pulls out on you.

I'll be doing my restricted license test in 10 days and will be moving up to a 400cc bike, which will, I hope... give me that arms out of their sockets feeling once again

Just do it mate. It'll change your life, and you'll love it

Gr44 · 06-11-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by dave87

CBT you use the schools bikes, as you can with the training & test afterwards - no need to buy a 125 (unless like me there was a gap between CBT & training)

But you need to be >21 to drive anything over 125cc, is this right? ( 19 Still )

Michael,

Yup... been tickering with the idea for some time. But I may soon be able to hold you accountable for a big credit card bill!!

As for the acceleration feel.... any male with blood still flowing has the same thing I think.... we're all big kids, really. I never intend to get a slower car, I can tell you that much!! When I brought the last one it was insanely fast, as you said... couple of weeks and your back to square one.

Though, now and then... on the odd foot > floor exercise, she can still shock me

Do you have any pictures of your old bike, out of interest? Not seen a good looking 125 yet - half the reason I want a bigger one!

Tumble · 06-11-2006, 11:11 PM

It should make you a better car driver too, knowing how much other road users look down on you (if they even clock you in the first place

), and I guarantee you'll be absolutely HORRIFIED at the amount of visual information you miss on a regular basis whilst sat in your 21c cabin with 5 seats

I know was.

**Agent** · 06-11-2006, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Gr44

Reason for wanting a bike is NOT speed alone. However I don't really want to spend 2k on a 125cc bike and then buy another bike ( eg 400/500cc ). I'd rather buy a decent bike and trust myself to use it sensibally.

That’s cool then

Considering you are coming up to 21, it might be a good idea. Although two things to remember.
It will cost you to have it restricted. Some bikes take a restriction with ease (such as my ER-5) should it need to, some will be a day’s work. You need to have this done professionally so you have the documents to back it up.
After 2 years you might be fed up with the bike. If this is the case, you might as well of had a 125 to learn on and brought a bigger bike once you reached 21.

Originally Posted by Gr44

Reasons for a bike are: Thrill, that is a thrill of riding a bike at a reasonable speed - I would imagine a bike at 50-60 feels one hell of alot faster than a car doing the same, or even a ton. Also, it's completely differant to a car, I've had a car for nearly 2 years.... done a fairly high mileage in them to, along with numerous hire cars for works etc.... and to be honest, they get boring... as I'm sure a bike would, but hell its cheaper and something new to get a bike rather than another car!!
I want that experiance at some point in my life, now I figure is easier to do it than in 10-20-30 years.
Also, i suppose it helps the enviroment, slightly... hah - who am i kidding.

You’re right

It does feel much faster on a bike, and the feeling is totally different. I much prefer to be on a bike over a car. Its just more enjoyable (weather depending

)

Originally Posted by Gr44

Right, a more pressing issue than if I'm going to kill myself by riding like a nutter -

CBT, Do I have to buy a bike before I do this? is there no way I can have a go on some bikes first to see if I actually enjoy it ? Never no I might hate it - would be a waste of 2k on a bike then!!

Nope, you don’t need your own bike for a CBT

In fact most of the time you will have to use one of their bikes. It’s a good day out if anything and you will have something at the end of it.
As for buying a bike – most good places will allow you to test ride, although being a learner this can pose issues. Anything from point blank refusal to a huge damage deposit are common.

Originally Posted by Gr44

I wouldn't want to shell out large amounts of money for something I hate a week later... anyway around this? Bike schools? never seen one but I guess they must exist? ( Can you tell I've done my research?? ) *goes to yell.com*

Yup

Google them, should be plenty around. You can pay for each lesson as you go, so if you do a few and feel like you really hate it, you just don’t have anymore. So while you have lost a few quid on the lessons, you really havnt lost much compared to buying a bike + equipment + test.

Originally Posted by Gr44

500cc ER-5 eh? do you offer free rides with clothing to boot?

No

Im doing my DAS at the moment, so I cant ride it on public roads at the moment myself

Michael · 06-11-2006, 11:31 PM

Gr44... i'm 18

Techincally, after I pass my test, I should be on a bike restricted to 33bhp for two years, but as long as the certificate to say the restrictor kits are in my bike... who are they to know if they actually are or aren't (Unless, of coruse, i'm clocked at a silly speed).

Here's my old bike:

Edit: Haha, do not ask what's going on with the L plates there... Lol, pieces of crap.

**Agent** · 06-11-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gr44

But you need to be >21 to drive anything over 125cc, is this right? ( 19 Still )

21 is just the legal age for DAS.
You can do the CBT when you are 17, then the A (restricted) test, 2 years later you can ride anything. Assume you did your CBT and the A test in the same year, the best you can do is 19.
Considering you are already 19, that option is gone.

You can either CBT + 2 years riding = unrestricted or
Wait till 21 and do DAS = unrestricted

Either way, you can not take anything on the road over 33bhp untill you are 21 now.
Like i said above, any bike restricted to 33bhp at the moment is great for insurance + experience later on, but will probably work out more expensive than going via DAS + big bike when you are 21.
Very rarely will you see people that want to stick with the same bike like that.

Gr44 · 07-11-2006, 12:02 AM

Ahhhh, and the plot thickens.

Michael,

Looks a nice bike matey - best 125 I have seen!!

Right...

I'm with you now Agent I think, with regards to what I can can't drive.... ride, rather

To clarify ( my poor brain needs it )

CBT = 'Course' rather than test, once you pass you get learner license = 125cc, less than 14.6bhp.

A test = Any bike ( at 33bhp )

then I can either wait 2 years and I can ride anything OR take the DA test ( which I cant because you have to be >21 ).

Ok then, another barrage of questions for your infinate wisdom!

If I were to do my CBT, then my A course ( without buying a bike ) I can buy anything, but obviously little point in buying a very powerful bike, as you said I'll be bored with it in 2 years anyway. So what bike would be a reasonable ( eg as near to 33bhp as possible and decent! - I like the 'sports' bike look )

A Test, can I use their bikes again? What does this entail over the CBT?

Also, having looked on autotrader for the bike Michael has, it appears ones with as few as 10k miles have had the engine rebuild already?? Is this normal for bikes, or this class or bike? if so does that not hugly ramp up the cost of them?

Thanks for everyones replies, I really appricate all the help I've gotten here so quickly!

Michael · 07-11-2006, 12:26 AM

The two stroke 125 bikes ususally need engine rebuilds, especially the Aprilia... they are just in such a high state of tune for what they are.

Infact, a de-restricted RS125 with all the powervalve gubbins in will just about be 30bhp, so just near the legal limit on the restricted A license....

However, you'll want more... hence why i'm moving to a 400. It's about 60BHP standard, so not learner legal, but you can buy restrictor kits for them to make them legal (They cripple the power).

Yes, you are right. You can do the CBT, then restricted license test and get any bike you want (At <= 33BHP).

Here's a list of 33bhp bikes: http://www.batmotorcycles.co.uk/33bhp.asp

If you want something sporty, legally 33bhp... maybe look at the Honda CBR250?

**Agent** · 07-11-2006, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gr44

CBT = 'Course' rather than test, once you pass you get learner license = 125cc or less, less or equal to 14.6bhp.

Yup

A (restricted) test = Any bike ( at 33bhp or less )

then I can either wait 2 years and I can ride anything OR take the DA test ( which I cant because you have to be >21 ).

Yup

Ok then, another barrage of questions for your infinate wisdom!

If I were to do my CBT, then my A course ( without buying a bike ) I can buy anything, but obviously little point in buying a very powerful bike, as you said I'll be bored with it in 2 years anyway. So what bike would be a reasonable ( eg as near to 33bhp as possible and decent! - I like the 'sports' bike look )

Thats a big question in its own right, and im not really a 125cc guy , ill ask about though.

A Test, can I use their bikes again? What does this entail over the CBT?

Its usualy a course thats a few days long. Length of said course depends on how many hours you do a day. You can usualy always use their bikes, although a hire fee is common for most things above a CBT. A riding school that doesnt offer bike use is a bad school.

Also, having looked on autotrader for the bike Michael has, it appears ones with as few as 10k miles have had the engine rebuild already?? Is this normal for bikes, or this class or bike? if so does that not hugly ramp up the cost of them?

Depends on the bike / engine. Check wikipedia and read up between 2-stroke vs 4 stroke engines - they can differ a lot in regards to rebuilds. Somthing like my ER-5 wont see a rebuild for a long time, a motorcross one used in races can have a rebuild after every race.

Thanks for everyones replies, I really appricate all the help I've gotten here so quickly!

Wrote my replies in bold, as i cba to sort out all the quote formating