Capcom whinge about DMC4 PC sales.

[revol68]

Predictably Capcom are blaming piracy. Obviously it has nothing to do with it coming out half a year after the console version and anyone into those games is going to most likely own a console and copy already. Nor does the fact it requires a controller and had next to no marketing matter, no it's all because of piracy.

Anyone who remembers the joke port of Resident Evil 4 they shipped will certainly have no sympathy for the whining gimps.

Here's an idea Capcom, if you want good PC sales stop treating PC gamers like a simple revenue stream after thought.

[Hicks12]

personally i havent bought it yet because the game didnt offer much to what i expected, it requires a controller(i think) which makes it completely rediculus as a keyboard+mouse is more common. The only game so far that has been excempt from releasing later is mass effect as they did a HUGE rebuild which was worthwhile, it made use of the mouse etc not just a crappy port been waiting. I picked up flatout ultimate carnage today as it just been released on pc, enjoyed it on 360 but when i pluged my wheel in ready to play i noticed it didnt support steeringwheels only the keyboard and 360 controller, why a 360 controller and not a steeringwheel for a racing game is beyond me but it made me waste £15 on a game i wont ejoy with a keyboard and cant return as the policy for pc games is replacement not refund, " to stop piracy" so they say but if i really was going to copy it etc then the replacement you give me just gives me another key to sell.

Developers need to open their eyes to see its not jsut piracy because only people who WOULDNT buy the game download it so they have not lost a potential sale because that person wouldnt download it, i think demos are going down hill and thats what should be changed to give you more info on the game a few more levels so you know you enjoy it so that you dont waste your money.

[kalniel]

While I agree it's unwise for a company to jump on piracy as a reason for bad sales, it's also unwise for people outside of the company to automatically assume that they are making it up and don't have any evidence.

Whenever any company complains about piracy on the PC it's instantly shot down for some reason, yet most of the companies I've heard anything about have actually got a fair amount of proof that piracy is rampant for the games (even longer term too). Sure, there's not a 100% correlation between pirated copy and lost sale, but it's still a higher correlation than you'd think, given people don't generally waste time downloading and continueing to play a game that they think is rubbish.

Demos are a tricky one - most companies have tried them and they have different effects for different genres. I actually thought the DMC demo was very good - it addressed the two big uncertainties I have about PC games: will it run on my system and what is the control scheme like? Everything else I can get from comparing detailed game reviews.

Regarding treating the PC as an afterthought I think that's an absurd suggestion to be honest. PC versions cost WAY more and generate much LESS revenue than a console version, so unless a company is deliberately trying to break into the market and establish a proper effort there it's not worth doing in the first place. I know a huge amount of effort was put into the PC version (hence the delay of course, it wasn't just for the sake of it) so to say it's just an after-thought is completely inaccurate.

[revol68]

Originally Posted by kalniel

While I agree it's unwise for a company to jump on piracy as a reason for bad sales, it's also unwise for people outside of the company to automatically assume that they are making it up and don't have any evidence.

Whenever any company complains about piracy on the PC it's instantly shot down for some reason, yet most of the companies I've heard anything about have actually got a fair amount of proof that piracy is rampant for the games (even longer term too). Sure, there's not a 100% correlation between pirated copy and lost sale, but it's still a higher correlation than you'd think, given people don't generally waste time downloading and continueing to play a game that they think is rubbish.

Demos are a tricky one - most companies have tried them and they have different effects for different genres. I actually thought the DMC demo was very good - it addressed the two big uncertainties I have about PC games: will it run on my system and what is the control scheme like? Everything else I can get from comparing detailed game reviews.

Regarding treating the PC as an afterthought I think that's an absurd suggestion to be honest. PC versions cost WAY more and generate much LESS revenue than a console version, so unless a company is deliberately trying to break into the market and establish a proper effort there it's not worth doing in the first place. I know a huge amount of effort was put into the PC version (hence the delay of course, it wasn't just for the sake of it) so to say it's just an after-thought is completely inaccurate.

but Capcom have no evidence it's piracy, the game is only out less than a month. Piracy is also an issue faced by EVERY game on the PC, so that doesn't affect the fact that DMC4 has sold poorly in relation to other PC games. There was no marketing for the game on the PC and like I said the type of gamers it appeals to most likely have it for a console 5 months ago. And Capcom have a long history of treating PC gamers like crap with lazy ports since Street Fighter, Resident Evil 1 up to last years Resident Evil 4 which had worse graphics than the PS2 version (bar resolution obviously). Yes they put effort into porting DMC4 but i'm afraid it's too little too late, all the effort in the world means nothing when it's 5 months late and most people who wanted to play it have played it, it's not exactly a AAA series like GTA, Resident Evil, or Metal Gear Solid. If Capcom want to break the PC market then they will just have to put up with the extra effort and reduced profit margins in that market, not throw out something 5 months late and then complain when it doesn't sell.

[mediaboy]

And saying that it's an after thought is more of an impression than a fact.

It seems like capcom are saying, "Oh yes.. and by the way PC users.. here's the other bit that we didn't put in."

Not good advertising.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by revol68

but Capcom have no evidence it's piracy,

Oh sorry, I didn't realise you had access to Capcom's internal information. Alternatively if you don't, why make such assertive statements without any knowledge?

Piracy is also an issue faced by EVERY game on the PC, so that doesn't affect the fact that DMC4 has sold poorly in relation to other PC games.

Has it? I don't recall Capcom saying that was the reason they think it had been pirated.

Yes they put effort into porting DMC4 but i'm afraid it's too little too late, all the effort in the world means nothing when it's 5 months late

I'm not understanding you here - you want them to put more effort into something but at the same time you can't abide it taking longer.. how on earth do you expect them to use their effort then? Putting more effort into development means you take longer on it, unless you are doing something weird like quadrupling your dev team. They are putting up with 'extra effort and reduced profit margins' - that's exactly the cost of developing for the PC. To be honest 5 months is an astonishingly small delay when you compare the complexities.

Or are you one of these people that wants games to be held up after completion so that you have a simultanious release cross platforms?

[revol68]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Oh sorry, I didn't realise you had access to Capcom's internal information. Alternatively if you don't, why make such assertive statements without any knowledge?

Has it? I don't recall Capcom saying that was the reason they think it had been pirated.

I'm not understanding you here - you want them to put more effort into something but at the same time you can't abide it taking longer.. how on earth do you expect them to use their effort then? Putting more effort into development means you take longer on it, unless you are doing something weird like quadrupling your dev team. They are putting up with 'extra effort and reduced profit margins' - that's exactly the cost of developing for the PC. To be honest 5 months is an astonishingly small delay when you compare the complexities.

Or are you one of these people that wants games to be held up after completion so that you have a simultanious release cross platforms?

they managed to realse on both the ps3 and 360, with the PS3 requiring more effort than PC programming, they of course were willing to put that effort in for the PS3 market.

the facts are that if they want half decent sales on the PC they will have to get the game out at the same time as the other platforms, people just aren't going to give a turd about DMC4 5 months down the line on the PC. Personally I don't think DMC4 is the type of title ever likely to generate big sales on the PC.

If the effort required to get the game out on PC at the same time as the consoles is too much for Capcom then they will just have to suck it up and accept the poor sales when they release it 5 months down the line. It's pathetic to see multinational corporations making schoolboy excuses for the poor sales of their game as if anyone owes them anything.

[mediaboy]

Ermm.. despite my complaints..

I'd much rather that it was 5 months late and that we had the extra content with a few extra levels of difficulty and a few bugs edited out, than the first 1.0 version with all the bugs left in it.

Not sure on bugginess of PC version though, so don't quote me.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by revol68

It's pathetic to see multinational corporations making schoolboy excuses for the poor sales of their game as if anyone owes them anything.

Or.. shock horror, what if they happen to be right and piracy is hurting their PC sales? It strikes me as sad that someone would rather jump on a professional company and call them schoolboy without any proof than actually consider the possibility that they might be telling the truth.

[TooNice]

Recent GTA games tend to be released a whole year after their console release (or longer), but they are pretty successful commercially aren't they? It might be worth taking even longer to release than a mere 5 months (which I don't think is a lot), but really polish it and give even more.

Was Bioshock more commercially successful on the Xbox 360 or on the PC? If I was a game developer, I think that I would be a little concerned about pirated releases of the PC version cannibalising sales of not only the PC release, but also the consoles releases. Not that consoles are piracy proof, far from it, but I think it is fair to say that piracy is even more effortless on PC than on consoles.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by TooNice

Was Bioshock more commercially successful on the Xbox 360 or on the PC?

Xbox by far, if I remember rightly it was something like 10:1.

If I was a game developer, I think that I would be a little concerned about pirated releases of the PC version cannibalising sales of not only the PC release, but also the consoles releases. Not that consoles are piracy proof, far from it, but I think it is fair to say that piracy is even more effortless on PC than on consoles.

Yup.

[revol68]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Or.. shock horror, what if they happen to be right and piracy is hurting their PC sales? It strikes me as sad that someone would rather jump on a professional company and call them schoolboy without any proof than actually consider the possibility that they might be telling the truth.

because piracy doesn't explain it's crappy sales figures in relation to other PC games that are as vulnerable to piracy. When you produce something for a market you should do your homework on it, piracy and torrents aren't new things, Capcom should've factored it in if they thought it was such a big deal, unless of course they imagine DMC4 is unique on being up on torrent sites.

Essentially Capcom overestimated how popular their 5 month year old port of a console action game would be, I mean it's not even that great a game, certainly not one PC gamers really have an appetite for and if they do have an appetite for it they most likely already own it on a console.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by revol68

because piracy doesn't explain it's crappy sales figures in relation to other PC games that are as vulnerable to piracy.

I still don't understand. Most PC games sales are affected by piracy, and most are also relatively poor. Capcom aren't saying 'we've sold less than other PC games so it must be piracy', but that seems to be what you're having a go at them for.

[darxide]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Xbox by far, if I remember rightly it was something like 10:1.

Yup.

The whole DRM/activation fiasco certainly did the PC sales no favours, was a good game though.

[directhex]

lifetime sales predictions are 340k for bioshock pc, 1.9m for bioshock 360

DMC4 figures are 1.6m for ps3, 1.4m for 360, 210k for pc

[steve threlfall]

Interesting figures Hex. If porting a game doesnt prove worthwhile then Capcom probably wont bother again.