Advice on a joystick

[Workaholic]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section....

The only advice I could find in the gaming section was the sticky from 2004 (2 years ago!) - needs updating.

Basically I want to buy a joystick and was looking at those offered by SCAN. At the moment I use a PS1 joypad with a USB converter but I want to actually get a more lifelike feel for flight sims etc (such as flying helicopters and planes in battlefield.)

At the moment my choices are between these joysticks...
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Twist Handle Retail
Logitech Force 3D Pro Joystick UK Retail
Saitek Cyborg EVO Hi-End Joystick

The wireless versions are good in theory but I don't want the battery to die just as I'm flying over the enemy base or about to land..... And this one, Saitek X52 *Flight Control System* PC Joystick - USB, is simply overkill.

Does force feedback actually make much difference to you guys and do you think I should get a force feedback controller? Button count does not realy matter as long as I have enough for the basic commands such as strafe (maybe?), reload, change weapons, enter/exit vehicles etc.

Okay inputs on which I should go for.

[jeNK^]

I've got the X52, very nice but does have it's problems (namely software) I wouldn't class it as overkill, because when I use that over my old Sidewinder, I no longer need to use the keyboard as well to be able to operate all the functions. It's also a very comfortable stick + throttle to use

Out of the three you have listed, Cyborg EVO wins, no questions asked.

EVO is tried and tested, takes a good beating. (Joysticks have to be able to withstand some abuse, no matter how you treat them. )

It also has a decent number of buttons and the software allows you to make macro's for radio comms or other such niceties

FFB is your choice, I dislike it. It takes away the accuracy that my flight style requires. First person to mention 'realism' get's shot, because a rumbling stick whilst I am sat in my comfy chair infront of my PC is far from real.

[Workaholic]

Cheers for that, it does look a hell of a lot better than the logitech ones too....

Quick question - When I first used PC joysticks (in 1996....) - standard was 2 axis and 2 buttons, well every now and then you had to reconfigure it as the stick may have mechanically moved a bit over the center line, they have fixed/improved a lot ever since right (because I don't want to be reconfiguring my controller all the time - other wise I'll stay with a gamepad!)

[chrestomanci]

If you mean Battlefield 2, then I don't think it supports force feedback. In any case I don't think force feedback is used much in flight sims, except when you crash, or as a stick shaker when you are about to stall.

for a filght sim, you do need a Joystick with four analoge channels (axies) (roll, pitch, throttle, rudder) such as the twist handle ones you mentioned. I am currently playing flight sims using a basic Logitech Attack 3 Joystick, and I am handicaped because I don't have rudder controll.

I think that for helecopter sims, you would need even more channels, but I don't know, you will have to check.

[jeNK^]

Yes they have improved vastly in the last 10years (christ that is scary.. 10 friggin years! I'm only 23 too :|)

The EVO has the automagical-self-calibrating-doobrey technology, that nearly all Joysticks now have - everytime you plug it in it will self calibrate, so just make sure you leave it centred when you do plug it in

[jeNK^]

Originally Posted by chrestomanci

If you mean Battlefield 2, then I don't think it supports force feedback. In any case I don't think force feedback is used much in flight sims, except when you crash, or as a stick shaker when you are about to stall.

for a filght sim, you do need a Joystick with four analoge channels (axies) (roll, pitch, throttle, rudder) such as the twist handle ones you mentioned. I am currently playing flight sims using a basic Logitech Attack 3 Joystick, and I am handicaped because I don't have rudder controll.

I think that for helecopter sims, you would need even more channels, but I don't know, you will have to check.

In IL2 it certainly is used for more than just stalls and crashes, it will resist your movements when at high speed (control surfaces are compressed) and torque effect when accelerating etc.

Helicopter Sims need one channel more than Aeroplane, just because of the addition of Cyclic (the up/down control) as well as the others. But throttle can be 'ignored' as you don't need it as much.

[Workaholic]

Originally Posted by chrestomanci

If you mean Battlefield 2, then I don't think it supports force feedback. In any case I don't think force feedback is used much in flight sims, except when you crash, or as a stick shaker when you are about to stall.

for a filght sim, you do need a Joystick with four analoge channels (axies) (roll, pitch, throttle, rudder) such as the twist handle ones you mentioned. I am currently playing flight sims using a basic Logitech Attack 3 Joystick, and I am handicaped because I don't have rudder controll.

I think that for helecopter sims, you would need even more channels, but I don't know, you will have to check.

I won't be playing proper flight sim games only flying aircraft in wargames. I.e. for the helicopter flying, I only need (Tilt forward, Left, Right, Backwards on the stick movement):
Don't actually need a rudder (unless BF2 has that in - battlefield 1942 and vietnam don't?)
1) rotor speed up - more lift
2) Rotor speed down - less lift
3) Primary fire
4) Secondary Fire
5) Music option
6) Commands
7) Change seat/position in vehicle
8) Change View (hardly use this anyway!)

Really 8 buttons should suit me although for the last 4, I still leave them mapped to the keyboard!

Originally Posted by jeNK^

Yes they have improved vastly in the last 10years (christ that is scary.. 10 friggin years! I'm only 23 too :|)

The EVO has the automagical-self-calibrating-doobrey technology, that nearly all Joysticks now have - everytime you plug it in it will self calibrate, so just make sure you leave it centred when you do plug it in

I'm only 21, but still games then were usually puzzle bobble, bomberman, and the microsoft Arcade pack... (Hmm old days)

[MonkeyBum]

I did exackly the same a week ago, got a joystick for in BF2.

"Logitech Attack 3" from gamestation for £20, perfect for BF2...lots of programmable buttons, flares - eject - etc, and the throttle works wonderfully Lets you hover and stuff if you position it right.

EDIT: Btw, flying helis on battlefield is A LOT more fun with a joystick, espically when you've got a transporter full of people, you can make some ambitious landings to capture flags

[Workaholic]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBum

I did exackly the same a week ago, got a joystick for in BF2.

"Logitech Attack 3" from gamestation for £20, perfect for BF2...lots of programmable buttons, flares - eject - etc, and the throttle works wonderfully Lets you hover and stuff if you position it right.

EDIT: Btw, flying helis on battlefield is A LOT more fun with a joystick, espically when you've got a transporter full of people, you can make some ambitious landings to capture flags

Ha ha I do that all the time except I don't get out.... enemy just stands there stunned!

P.S. the JS at SCAN is only £14.91 Inc VAT!

And back on topic, I've notcied the use of the shift button means you get twice as many keys out of a set of buttons, but the EVO has 2 shift keys so does I get 3 times the set of programmable compared to physical buttons?

[dkmech]

I've got the EVO and i like it. I think shift buttons are just for either side (lefthanded people for example). But I am not sure, not had much use for the shift buttons yet.

[herulach]

yes it does. go for teh cyborg evo wireless, tonnes of battery life, and makes it nice and easy to fling out the way when you need to get to your keyboard to play properly/

[OrangeAgent]

I have the EVO, I highly reccomend it.

[skuzgib]

I use an EVO too, and dude you really should use your change view button - lets you check your six

[Workaholic]

Originally Posted by skuzgib

I use an EVO too, and dude you really should use your change view button - lets you check your six

Reason I hardly change my view is I usually end up crashing into the water/land or another plane flys just in front of me...!

And ok, EVO it is then (I'll add that to my order later.)

Anyone want to give me reasons for getting the wireless one compared to wired? or vice versa?

At the mo, I only have a wireless mouse,keyboard set, mobile phone and cordless DECT phone - no router yet.

[Koolpc]

Saitek...........Awesome.

[Zak33]

Originally Posted by herulach

yes it does. go for teh cyborg evo wireless, tonnes of battery life, and makes it nice and easy to fling out the way when you need to get to your keyboard to play properly/

'orrible thing! Get the one with a cable....every time!

The Evo Wireless turns itself off too often to save battery life...so while you are waiting for a game to begin you have to keep waggling it about, and cant go grab a coffee!

Besides....try it at a LAN party where other people have Wireless too....

Mine all over the place...I was inverted and ejected befor i knew that Clingy's son was playing counterstrike in the same room with wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Nowt wrong with a cable....and cable Evo are awesome

PLUS latest Microsfot drivers (Winodws Update after you've plugged it in) comes with dead zone option etc and therefore you dont need to install Saitek drivers at all.