Analysis - Amazon's Kindle to become UK bestseller?

[HEXUS]

With the availability of Amazon's kindle in the UK, we look at whether the device has much potential and whether bibliophiles will be prepared to shell out for the device.

Read more.

[Saracen]

whether bibliophiles will be prepared to shell out for the device.

This one won't. Not at that price. At half that, I might think about it. Maybe. But to me, no way am I paying that for an e-book reader.

But will it be a success? Probably. A success, but not a revolution. IMHO, it's too expensive for most casual users, and needs to drop a fair bit before the perceived benefits justify the cost. I'd guess they're basing this on what people will pay for mobile phones, but mobile phones generally have much higher and wider functionality, in-built gadget sexiness, are small and easy to carry and are useful to most people day-in, day-out. Most people don't read books anything like that much, and a good percentage of those that do like books.

So I'd like one, I'd have uses for it and if I knew I was going to be given one, I'd probably hint at that one. But I'd also hint that anyone prepared to pay that for one as a gift for me check-in with a psychiatrist for a check-up, because if they think I think it's worth that money, they need their mental marbles examined.

[menthel]

I can't see it suceeding here until they actually come up with a UK specific version. I won't be buying one until they lose this 'poor counsin of the US' approach.

[TheAnimus]

Saracen, your comments remind me of everything people said about home computers, the internet, mobile phones.

Regrettably it also could be held true against the Sinclair C5

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TheAnimus

Saracen, your comments remind me of everything people said about home computers, the internet, mobile phones.

Regrettably it also could be held true against the Sinclair C5

And it was true of home computers, the internet and mobile phones. They only hit the mass market when price was such that they reached critical mass. Prior to that, all three had been available for years but at a price where they didn't appeal to the mass market.

And I was an early adopter on all three, with a home computer (Apple II) in the late '70s, online activity dating back to proprietary dial-up bulletin boards when the likes of Dowty Quattro (2400 baud max) and earlier US Robotics modems were a grand a piece, and fairly (though not very) early in the cellphone days with BT Cellnet.

Everything starts like that, though. My first CD burner (a Yamaha CDR-100) was about £3000, and the software that drove it (Personal Scribe) another £1000. Blanks were £15 a time. And I do mean EACH. One of my early PCs had a 338MB ESDI hard drive that was about £1500.

These were not, obviously, sums that would appeal to home users. They appealed to businesses and very dedicated enthusiasts. E-readers don't, IMHO, have much of an appeal as a business tool that would justify the £10,000 price tag my second PC (but not second home computer) had as a full retail price (and I got for a lot less than that because of contracts), or the £4000 early mobile phones cost.

The likes of the Kindle are a LOT closer to viable consumer pricing that that. They might even be cheap enough to take off at current prices, and are certainly low enough to be a discretionary, impulse spend for lot of people. But they're not yet (IMHO) at critical mass.

A mobile is more or less a must-have for modern living. I wouldn't really want to be totally without one, but my last (current) one cost me a whopping £5 from ASDA. The other end of the mobile market, clearly, is the like of i-phone (and competitors) or Blackberry-type devices. The mobile market reflects dirt-cheap PAYG services for minimalist uses like me, up to expensive (but good value) contracts for heavy users. The market is mature enough to support all sectors. The e-reader market isn't. Yet.

Which is why I think your comment that people said that about mobile phones, PCs, etc, is dead on. But it's not just about the absolute cost. It's about perceived utility as well. People get much more perceived utility from a modern PC, or a modern mobile phone, than they do from e-book readers, and until that changes, they'll be a niche product, either for people with a specific need (like those that travel a lot), or that like having the latest fancy gadget.

If you think back to early mobile phones, let alone early home computers, they've grown and adapted a LOT. It makes me wonder how e-readers will adapt over a few years? Will they morph into a must-have like the mobile, or into a techno-curiosity like the C5? I suspect the former, but it's early days.

[cjs150]

Its got about as much chance as I have of winning the lottery jackpot.

Your review said it all

1. Proprietary format - sorry but I will not, under any circumstances agree to that. After all what happens when Amazon stops supporting it. Does that mean that Amazon could lock you out of your paid for content or delete a book. I refuse to accept proprietary formats for music so apple does not get a look in with me

2. Too expensive to start with and the books are too pricey. £5 a book. I happily pay for that with real books but I know I am paying for the costs of paper and printing as well. If you want to make it fly the books need to be priced at about £3 per go (less would be nice).

3. Will subscription to the newspapers produce an electronic duplicate of the daily newspaper or some edited version? £14 per month for The Times seems good value, the paper version is 90p per day or £4.50 per week so an electronic version is similar price but a lot more convenient on the commute - but can I do the daily crossword and sudoko on it?

It also looks a flawed design. I think I saw pictures of a 2 screen ebook by ASUS a couple of weeks ago which looked much more logical and more like a book - but I assume 2 screens means twice the price

[TooNice]

I wonder if a standalone e-book reader can differentiate itself sufficiently to stay separate from other mobile devices (I am thinking higher end mobile phones, but also PDAs and perhaos netbook). One of my friend, who is very much a bookworm, has also embraced books in digital format. However, while she did seriously consider an e-book, she eventually decided to keep her £300 for other things. Now as someone who tend to buy higher end PDA-phones, being quite usable as an e-book reader is very high in her list of 'must-dos'.

I suppose that it can make sense for book fanatics who wants to go on holidays for 3 weeks without taking a laptop with them, but as already said, the price is probably still too steep though there is a market interested in such device.

(I am kind of thinking SSDs. Enthusiasts want one, but I dare say that most haven't bought one due to being too expensive)

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TooNice

I wonder if a standalone e-book reader can differentiate itself sufficiently to stay separate from other mobile devices (I am thinking higher end mobile phones, but also PDAs and perhaos netbook). One of my friend, who is very much a bookworm, has also embraced books in digital format. However, while she did seriously consider an e-book, she eventually decided to keep her £300 for other things. Now as someone who tend to buy higher end PDA-phones, being quite usable as an e-book reader is very high in her list of 'must-dos'.

I suppose that it can make sense for book fanatics who wants to go on holidays for 3 weeks without taking a laptop with them, but as already said, the price is probably still too steep though there is a market interested in such device.

(I am kind of thinking SSDs. Enthusiasts want one, but I dare say that most haven't bought one due to being too expensive)

The differentiation question is a tricky one. The thing that appeals about the e-reader is the electronic paper technology that gives a screen that is much more comfortable on the eyes for protracted periods of reading, and without that, the e-reader concept just doesn't work for me. Standard laptop/netbook screens give me eye strain if I try to read for protracted periods (i.e, hours at a time) like I do with a good book. And, of course, the extremely low power usage is derived from that screen technology. Phones, PDAs, laptops, etc, on the other hand, have very poor battery life in comparison, but have screens that make then both far better suited to many tasks, and at the same time, largely unsuited as an e-reader..

Short of an utter revolution in screen technology, I can't see how e-readers and laptops etc could converge, because they have fundamentally different core uses that drive fundamentally different technologies. Trying to get either to function as the other involves huge compromise.

Yet that's exactly the problem. Do people really want yet another device to carry about, espcially when it's a relatively bulky one?

It seems like a basic contradiction.

Oh, and I agree with cjs150 about proprietary formats and DRM. I won't buy into that, either.

If I buy a book, I can lend it to the wife to read. If I do it with an e-book (in a proprietary format), then as I understand it, she has to borrow my e-book reader. I can't even transfer the file to her if she has the same make of reader, let alone a different one. Even if I could transfer the file to generic file format (like PDF) that we could share, I'd have to break the law to do it.

Another issue is that Amazon can remote delete books. We know that, because they did with, ironically, 1984.

And another thing. In the EU, books are free of VAT. e-books are not. So do I want to spend £200 on a device so that I have to pay 17.5% (or whatever the rate goes back up to) to the exchequer every time I buy a book? The hell I do.

And I wonder what the market for second-hand e-books will be? You can pick up an astonishing range of second-hand books for next to nothing at markets, and the like. But e-books?

For me, no, Kindle is currently of zero interest, even though I like some aspects of the idea. In the future, if some of these concerns (including price, both of the device and e-books) are addressed, then maybe. but not until.

[snootyjim]

I'm actually really interested in it myself - obviously the price is too high at the moment, and there's no way I'm buying a US knock-off, but nonetheless I've wanted one ever since it came out in the US.

The DRM issue is extremely frustrating, but since there's no viable alternative at the moment I guess I would put up with it. My hope is that by the time the Kindle becomes sufficiently low-priced for me to actually consider purchasing, there will be other (probably better) devices available on the market, with far fewer DRM restrictions. My situation was similar to this with MP3 players - I held off getting into the iPod game until I found a device that suited me better, the Creative Zen, which has no iTunes rubbish tagging along with it. And I'm much happier as a result.

[cordas]

The real worry I have with these format.... I doubt Amazon will drop 'old formats', I am far more worried that Amazon/Barnes & Noble/Waterstones/Tescos/Sony/e.t.c. might sign up authors/publishers on exclusive publishing deals.... Imagine spending £X00 on your sparkling new E-reader only to have a rival retailer paying your favourite authors on exclusive deals that mean that you can't read their books on your new toy.

If the publishing industry wants to push ebooks they have to make common formats, and have a universal DRM system that works across all brands. Otherwise ebooks are likely to be doomed.

I also wish that ebook manufactures looked intelligently at their products and designed in handy other features... For example I would suggest MP3 player (with enough storage space/ expandable memory to make it worth the effort), alarm clock, calendar, email/web support.

[dangel]

I'm almost ready to jump on this bandwagon - not with the kindle but with one of the myriad of other devices out there. I'll be interested to see what the Barnes & Noble device looks like later today..

[scaryjim]

My experience of ereaders so far is that the technology isn't really up to scratch yet. The magnetic ink displays have this very distracting "flash" as the screen blacks out before resolving the next page, and the interfaces on the two Sony readers are quite counter-intuitive (the touch one is particularly bad - page turning gestures make no sense at all!).

In fact, the best e-reader I've experienced so far is Aldiko on my HTC Magic! It works really nicely, is intuitive to read on, and features plenty of setting adjustments (as well as being able to download thousands of public domain titles). I don't think we'll see an explosion of ereaders until someone uses the same model for a dedicated reader. It's also a shame you can't get a hands-on test of the kindle - I personally wouldn't buy an ereader without having been able to play with it first...

[dangel]

This one has a speedy refresh - http://www.bookeen.com/overview/ebook-interface.aspx doesn't seem to flash much when just changing textual pages..

It's true though - they are moving at a heck of a rate and there seems to be one annouced every other day atm

[Saracen]

My biggest problem (other than the price currently being too high) is DRM. And I'm caught in a trap I can't see an easy solution to.

On the one hand, I support the idea of content creators protecting their work, and their right to a revenue stream derived from it. I have no problem with DRM in principle provided it's not overly restrictive on me, as a legit buyer.

For instance, with a music CD, I'd be quite happy for the disk to be 100% protected against copying, if they can come up with a way of doing it, which of course, so far, they haven't. But I won't accept DRM if it means I can only play that disc on the device it was bought for. I have players in the lounge, office and bedroom, and in cars, and a personal CD player. I won't buy a disc if it means I can play it on the system in the lounge, but they preclude me from playing it on the system in the bedroom or car. Well, with CDs, they don't prevent me (other than some that have problems with PC players) from playing the disc on several machines, or from lending the disc to a friend.

I also think it's entirely unreasonable that, having bought the disk, I can play it in my personal player while travelling on the tube if that personal player is a CD player, but if I rip the disc to an MP3 player and listen to it while travelling on the tube, I've broken the law. The law on that, IMHO, needs to change.

And the same issue applies to books. I support authors and publishers protecting their rights, but as a legit buyer, I expect to be able to use the material I've bought in any reasonable fashion, and that includes, for example, lending it to the wife when I'm not using it, or to transferring to to a new player (and not necessarily an Amazon one) if I upgrade in a year or two. Something that restricts usage to a given player, or even players from a specific manufacturer is not going to get my money, because I'm not going to pay out now for e-books, only to find that in a few years time, I can no longer read the files. For the same reason, I won't accept anything that requires authorisation from the supplier if I want to move device. I have no assurance that the company (even Amazon) will even exist, let alone necessarily support an old system, in a few years.

I can't see a system that could be implemented that would give me the freedom of use I have with a printed book, and protect the copyright holders interests against determined attempts at piracy. And we've seen mass piracy against video content on DVD, even to unreleased new films, and against music, and against games. I think its a fair bet that if and when e-books become the norm, we'll see mass piracy there too, and it's already fairly prevalent.

So DRM is the biggest issue for me, because it restricts what I require as a legit user far below what I'm prepared to accept. Until and unless that gets resolved (and I'm not holding my breath), I won't pay out for material with intrusive or overly restrictive DRM. And I don't see it getting resolved, certainly not any time soon. So for me, it's low-tech on this, and I'll carry on buying books.

[TheAnimus]

Originally Posted by Saracen

A mobile is more or less a must-have for modern living. I wouldn't really want to be totally without one, but my last (current) one cost me a whopping £5 from ASDA. The other end of the mobile market, clearly, is the like of i-phone (and competitors) or Blackberry-type devices. The mobile market reflects dirt-cheap PAYG services for minimalist uses like me, up to expensive (but good value) contracts for heavy users. The market is mature enough to support all sectors. The e-reader market isn't. Yet.

Which is why I think your comment that people said that about mobile phones, PCs, etc, is dead on. But it's not just about the absolute cost. It's about perceived utility as well. People get much more perceived utility from a modern PC, or a modern mobile phone, than they do from e-book readers, and until that changes, they'll be a niche product, either for people with a specific need (like those that travel a lot), or that like having the latest fancy gadget.

You see i still think that as soon as you can buy one for £20 and then £10/15 a month which gives you a library, which you can just download straight from (HSDPA) as much as you like it will just hit that sweet spot.

I'd imagine it would go something like £10 for non-fiction, mabye with £1 suppliments for Dan Brown etc, then you might well get 'packs' So i could buy the Computer Science pack for £20 a month, which gives me access to 1000s of reference books.

That would just be awesome, and I really don't think its far away.

In this case, I wouldn't say it is the cost of the device, but the cost of the content.

In much the same way that 10 years ago you could get 'net ready PCs for £600, it was just a case of using them in that way was too hard, and far too costly.

I'd imagine that plenty of people still spend well over £600 on a PC in todays time.

[mphilip98]

Originally Posted by Saracen

My biggest problem (other than the price currently being too high) is DRM. And I'm caught in a trap I can't see an easy solution to.

On the one hand, I support the idea of content creators protecting their work, and their right to a revenue stream derived from it. I have no problem with DRM in principle provided it's not overly restrictive on me, as a legit buyer.

For instance, with a music CD, I'd be quite happy for the disk to be 100% protected against copying, if they can come up with a way of doing it, which of course, so far, they haven't. But I won't accept DRM if it means I can only play that disc on the device it was bought for. I have players in the lounge, office and bedroom, and in cars, and a personal CD player. I won't buy a disc if it means I can play it on the system in the lounge, but they preclude me from playing it on the system in the bedroom or car. Well, with CDs, they don't prevent me (other than some that have problems with PC players) from playing the disc on several machines, or from lending the disc to a friend.

I also think it's entirely unreasonable that, having bought the disk, I can play it in my personal player while travelling on the tube if that personal player is a CD player, but if I rip the disc to an MP3 player and listen to it while travelling on the tube, I've broken the law. The law on that, IMHO, needs to change.

And the same issue applies to books. I support authors and publishers protecting their rights, but as a legit buyer, I expect to be able to use the material I've bought in any reasonable fashion, and that includes, for example, lending it to the wife when I'm not using it, or to transferring to to a new player (and not necessarily an Amazon one) if I upgrade in a year or two. Something that restricts usage to a given player, or even players from a specific manufacturer is not going to get my money, because I'm not going to pay out now for e-books, only to find that in a few years time, I can no longer read the files. For the same reason, I won't accept anything that requires authorisation from the supplier if I want to move device. I have no assurance that the company (even Amazon) will even exist, let alone necessarily support an old system, in a few years.

I can't see a system that could be implemented that would give me the freedom of use I have with a printed book, and protect the copyright holders interests against determined attempts at piracy. And we've seen mass piracy against video content on DVD, even to unreleased new films, and against music, and against games. I think its a fair bet that if and when e-books become the norm, we'll see mass piracy there too, and it's already fairly prevalent.

So DRM is the biggest issue for me, because it restricts what I require as a legit user far below what I'm prepared to accept. Until and unless that gets resolved (and I'm not holding my breath), I won't pay out for material with intrusive or overly restrictive DRM. And I don't see it getting resolved, certainly not any time soon. So for me, it's low-tech on this, and I'll carry on buying books.

Nice review..